The Eucharist IS Scriptural!

[confused15]

Hi, Sinner06,

Let me try my hand at answering this question.

There is only so far you can take an analogy…all of them ‘limp’ but, if pushed too far then they just fall flat on their faces! Passover is an analogy in the sense that it was God’s preparation of the Jews for the First Coming of His Son. As I appreciate the situaiton, Passover held the following at the least the following three concepts:
1- Freedom from slavery (Egyptian masters treated the Hebrews badly - and sin is a much worse slave driver then any Egyptian!)

2- Saving from the death (The Angel of Death passed over the houses of those who smeared the blood of the sacrificed lamb on their door posts. The Blood of Christ spares us from the death caused by our sins.)

3- They Hebrews were to slay a lamb in a particular way and not break any of its bones (Christ - our Pascal Sacrifice was slain upon the Wood of the Cross and none of His bones were broken - even that was Roman policy - to fulfill Scripture.)

Christ was physically born in a manger and He physically died on a cross. Christ rose from the dead - and can die no more! At the Sacrifice of the Mass, we are taken to the Last Supper where Christ gave His Body - under the appearance of Bread and Wine - to His Apostles to eat. We are taken to the Foot of the Cross to be with Dying Christ who gave His All so that we may live. The Mass is the UN-bloody sacrifice of Jesus Christ - as the Gift most Holy and Pleasing to God. We obey Christ’s Command to eat His Flesh when we go to Communion.

Did this help?

God bless

But sinner06 claimed that Protestants believe the same thing about Christ’s sacrifice that the Jews believed about Passover.

I find it interesting that you use the example of the Passover. Christ was, of course, the new Passover lamb, sacrificed so as to save us, just like the original lamb was slain to protect the Israelites. However, look at what happened after the sacrifice of the original lamb. The Jewish feast of the Passover was then instituted as a memorial of the original sacrifice. The Jews did not believe they were eating the actual Passover lamb that had been sacrificed. Also, you talk about the temporal effects pointing towards the spiritual ones. If 100 years after Moses a Jew did not celebrate the Passover, would their firstborn son have been smited? Of course not. And what happened with the Passover, an original sacrifice for protection, followed by a memorial to commemorate the event, is exactly what Protestants say happened with Jesus. He offered a sacrifice, once and for all, and had a memorial instituted, just like what happened with the original Passover.

And notworthy claimed that this was incorrect, that the Jews believed they were physically made present at the first Passover, the same way Catholic’s believe they are made present at Calvary. No one answered sinner06’s question, though, of why the Church believes this, or what the source is that claims the Jews believed this about Passover?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Confused15,

Maybe that is the problem … a very vague statement to begin with that now must be defended or corrected. There is just too much wiggle room here - at least in my opinon.

But sinner06 claimed that Protestants believe the same thing about Christ’s sacrifice that the Jews believed about Passover. And notworthy claimed that this was incorrect, that the Jews believed they were physically made present at the first Passover, the same way Catholic’s believe they are made present at Calvary. No one answered sinner06’s question, though, of why the Church believes this, or what the source is that claims the Jews believed this about Passover?

I really tried, but, Sinner is going to have to step up to the plate again and aim for just what is it that s/he wants. Anticipating such a post … let me offer this link: newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm Once read, I think it will answer at least some of the questions that Sinner (and, possible you, too, Confused15) may have.

By the way Confused15… feel free to offer your own clairifying thoughts in this matter…

God bless

 

[confused15]

Hi, Confused15,

Maybe that is the problem … a very vague statement to begin with that now must be defended or corrected. There is just too much wiggle room here - at least in my opinon.

I really tried, but, Sinner is going to have to step up to the plate again and aim for just what is it that s/he wants. Anticipating such a post … let me offer this link: newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm Once read, I think it will answer at least some of the questions that Sinner (and, possible you, too, Confused15) may have.

By the way Confused15… feel free to offer your own clairifying thoughts in this matter…

God bless

Well, does anyone know, did the Jews believe that they were physically made present at the original Passover? If so, what is your source?

 

[NotWorthy]

But sinner06 claimed that Protestants believe the same thing about Christ’s sacrifice that the Jews believed about Passover.

And notworthy claimed that this was incorrect, that the Jews believed they were physically made present at the first Passover, the same way Catholic’s believe they are made present at Calvary. No one answered sinner06’s question, though, of why the Church believes this, or what the source is that claims the Jews believed this about Passover?

But my claim about the Jews being present at the first Passover is why the Church believes this.

The term Jesus used was “anamnesis”, which means “made present”. It’s the term the Jews used in the Septuagint when talking about the Seder meal.

 

[NotWorthy]

Well, does anyone know, did the Jews believe that they were physically made present at the original Passover? If so, what is your source?

I’ll see if I can find it, but I’m fixing to go on a retreat tomorrow and won’t be back on til Sunday.

If someone else doesn’t dig it up, I’ll see what I can find.

 

[Peter_Dawson]

Use of Scripture to verify Catholic theology tends to be extremely literalist.

There are some wonderful figures, or typological word pictures, verifying Catholic Eucharitic theology.

(1) When Christ was wrapped in swaddling clothes, He looked like a cadaver. A manger is a feeding trough for yoked animals. So, Christ wrapped in swaddling clothes and laid in a manger is a picture of the actual sacrificed body of Christ being served on a kind of dinner plate – and it all occurred in Bethlehem, Hebrew for “House of Bread”!!!

(2) The next one is gross, but I believe that God put it in Scripture to “rub our noses” in Real Presence theology…

37 A certain Razis, one of the elders of Jerusalem, was denounced to Nicanor as a patriot. A man highly regarded, he was called a father of the Jews because of his love for them.
38 In the early days of the revolt, he had been convicted of Judaism, and had risked body and life in his ardent zeal for it.
39 Nicanor, to show his detestation of the Jews, sent more than five hundred soldiers to arrest him.
40 He thought that by arresting such a man he would deal the Jews a hard blow.
41 But when these troops, on the point of capturing the tower, were forcing the outer gate and calling for fire to set the door ablaze, Razis, now caught on all sides, turned his sword against himself,
42 preferring to die nobly rather than fall into the hands of vile men and suffer outrages unworthy of his noble birth.
43 In the excitement of the struggle he failed to strike exactly. So while the troops rushed in through the doors, he gallantly ran up to the top of the wall and with manly courage threw himself down into the crowd.
44 But as they quickly drew back and left an opening, he fell into the middle of the empty space.
45 Still breathing, and inflamed with anger, he got up and ran through the crowd, with blood gushing from his frightful wounds.
46 Then, standing on a steep rock, as he lost the last of his blood, he tore out his entrails and flung them with both hands into the crowd, calling upon the Lord of life and of spirit to give these back to him again. Such was the manner of his death. 2 Maccabees 14:37-46.

In my opinion, Razis going up onto the wall is a picture of Christ going up to the cross. Razis stabbing himself with the sword is a picture of Christ being pierced with the spear on the cross. Razis throwing himself down into an “empty space” is a picture of Christ “descending into Hell,” as the Apostrles Creed describes it. Razis jumping up and climbing onto the rock is a picture of the Resurrection and Christ taking His place in the Church. Razis throwing his entrails onto the crowd is a picture of Christ distributing His actual sacrificed body and blood to His people via the Eucharist.

There are other pictures like these.