The Eucharist & The Reformation - HELP

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I would like some help concerning the history of The Eucharist and the reformation. Did the early protestant leaders, Luther, Calvin, etc., still believe in and have communion or was this dropped right away?

I’m just curious about how the protestant movement decided to eliminate The Eucharist.

I know this is a huge and detailed topic, but I don’t need a great deal of explanation. Rather I’m just looking to see if the early Protestant Church still held Communion sacred or not and if at that point they still beleived in transubstantiation?

I have posted this thread in another section, but so far no one has answered.

Your brother in Christ,

Stevers
 
I would like some help concerning the history of The Eucharist and the reformation. Did the early protestant leaders, Luther, Calvin, etc., still believe in and have communion or was this dropped right away?

I’m just curious about how the protestant movement decided to eliminate The Eucharist.

I know this is a huge and detailed topic, but I don’t need a great deal of explanation. Rather I’m just looking to see if the early Protestant Church still held Communion sacred or not and if at that point they still beleived in transubstantiation?

I have posted this thread in another section, but so far no one has answered.

Your brother in Christ,

Stevers
Well it depends on what flavour of Protestant you’re talking about. All Protestants have kept the “Lord’s Supper”, as they understand it. However, their understanding ranges. For example, the Lutherans believe in consubstantiation (that Jesus is present along with the bread and wine) instead of transubstantiation. Calvinists mostly believe in a purely symbolic Eucharist. Anglicans are the closest to Catholics, but I believe it is not an article of faith to believe in the Real Presence. In other words, you can believe it, or you cannot (please correct and forgive me if I’m wrong here, Anglicans).

As for how they all arrived at these ideas, I have no idea!
 
Well it depends on what flavour of Protestant you’re talking about. All Protestants have kept the “Lord’s Supper”, as they understand it. However, their understanding ranges. For example, the Lutherans believe in consubstantiation (that Jesus is present along with the bread and wine) instead of transubstantiation. Calvinists mostly believe in a purely symbolic Eucharist. Anglicans are the closest to Catholics, but I believe it is not an article of faith to believe in the Real Presence. In other words, you can believe it, or you cannot (please correct and forgive me if I’m wrong here, Anglicans).

As for how they all arrived at these ideas, I have no idea!
Actually, it is an article of faith for salvation that Catholics believe in transubstantiation. There are no official beliefs that are optional.
 
Actually, it is an article of faith for salvation that Catholics believe in transubstantiation. There are no official beliefs that are optional.
I believe that this is too often stated in a incomplete manner. Catholics believe in the True Presence; transubstantiation is the explaination of HOW this is the Real Presence. This was the Western mind needing a defining answer, while the Eastern mind said, “there is a True Presence, but how is a MYSTERY”. Both are recognizing what Christ left us, just stating it differently.

Kotton 👍
 
For example, the Lutherans believe in consubstantiation (that Jesus is present along with the bread and wine) instead of transubstantiation.
This is incorrect. “Consubstantiation” represents an unnecessarily cumbersome philosophical construct (as does “transubstantiation”, actually). If you have to label the Lutheran position it would be “sacramental union”.“Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise.”
** Augsburg Confession**
As for how they arrived at these ideas, I have no idea!
It is no secret.54] The Tenth Article has been approved, in which we confess that we believe, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered, with those things which are seen, bread and wine, to those who receive the Sacrament. This belief we constantly defend, as the subject has been carefully examined and considered. For since Paul says, 1 Cor. 10, 16, that the bread is the communion of the Lord’s body, etc., it would follow, if the Lord’s body were not truly present, that the bread is not a communion of the body, but only of the spirit of Christ. 55] And we have ascertained that not only the Roman Church affirms the bodily presence of Christ, but the Greek Church also both now believes, and formerly believed, the same. For the canon of the Mass among them testifies to this, in which the priest clearly prays that the bread may be changed and become the very body of Christ. And Vulgarius, who seems to us to be not a silly writer, says distinctly that bread is not a mere figure, but 56] is truly changed into flesh. And there is a long exposition of Cyril on John 15, in which he teaches that Christ is corporeally offered us in the Supper. For he says thus: Nevertheless, we do not deny that we are joined spiritually to Christ by true faith and sincere love. But that we have no mode of connection with Him, according to the flesh, this indeed we entirely deny. And this, we say, is altogether foreign to the divine Scriptures. For who has doubted that Christ is in this manner a vine, and we the branches, deriving thence life for ourselves? Hear Paul saying 1 Cor. 10, 17; Rom. 12, 5; Gal. 3, 28: We are all one body in Christ; although we are many, we are, nevertheless, one in Him; for we are, all partakers of that one bread. Does he perhaps think that the virtue of the mystical benediction is unknown to us? Since this is in us, does it not also, by the communication of Christ’s flesh, cause Christ to dwell in us bodily? And a little after: Whence we must consider that Christ is in us not only according to the habit, which we call love, 57] but also by natural participation, etc. We have cited these testimonies, not to undertake a discussion here concerning this subject, for His Imperial Majesty does not disapprove of this article, but in order that all who may read them may the more clearly perceive that we defend the doctrine received in the entire Church, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered with those things which are seen, bread and wine. And we speak of the presence of the living Christ [living body]; for we know that death hath no more dominion over Him, Rom. 6, 9.
The Apology of the Augsburg Confession
 
I would like some help concerning the history of The Eucharist and the reformation. Did the early protestant leaders, Luther, Calvin, etc., still believe in and have communion or was this dropped right away?

I’m just curious about how the protestant movement decided to eliminate The Eucharist.
Here’s the short version.

Martin Luther explained that he came to recognise that the Sacrifice of the Mass was ‘idolatrous’ only after the devil appeared to him at midnight, and during a long discussion (which Luther related) convinced him that he should forbid his followers to attend Mass. (*De Unct. et Miss. Priv. vii, 228).

Article XXXI of the Thirty Nine Articles of the Faith of the Church of England follows Luther’s lead. It states:

Of the one oblation of Christ finished upon the Cross
The offering of Christ once made is the perfect redemption, propitiation, and satisfaction for all the sins of the whole world, both original and actual, and there is none other satisfaction for sin but that alone. Wherefore the sacrifices of Masses, in the which it was commonly said that the priests did offer Christ for the quick and the dead to have remission of pain or guilt, were blasphemous fables and dangerous deceits.*
 
Here’s the short version.

Martin Luther explained that he came to recognise that the Sacrifice of the Mass was ‘idolatrous’ only after the devil appeared to him at midnight, and during a long discussion (which Luther related) convinced him that he should forbid his followers to attend Mass. (De Unct. et Miss. Priv. vii, 228).**This sounds amusing, but how about a little longer version. This is hard for me to follow. Fewer pronouns might help. Direct quotes with context would be awesome.

Convinced who that who should forbid who’s followers? Convinced Luther that the devil should forbid the devil’s followers to attend Mass? Convinced the devil that Luther should forbid the devil’s followers to attend Mass?
 
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Angainor:
Originally Posted by Eileen T
Here’s the short version.
Martin Luther explained that he came to recognise that the Sacrifice of the Mass was ‘idolatrous’ only after the devil appeared to him at midnight, and during a long discussion (which Luther related) convinced him that he should forbid his followers to attend Mass. (*De Unct. et Miss. Priv. vii, 228). *
This sounds amusing, but how about a little longer version. This is hard for me to follow. Fewer pronouns might help. Direct quotes with context would be awesome.

Convinced who that who should forbid who’s followers? Convinced Luther that the devil should forbid the devil’s followers to attend Mass? Convinced the devil that Luther should forbid the devil’s followers to attend Mass? Okay, I’ll have a try.

I have it in an apologetics book but apart from the reference ]De Unct. et Miss. Priv. vii, 228 I don’t know much else. Apparently, Luther had a discussion with satan who (satan) convinced Luther that the Mass was “idolatrous” and this discussion convinced Luther that he (Luther) should forbid his flollowers to attend Mass.

Here is a link to Dave Armstrongs Blog. He has researched Luther extensively …
socrates58.blogspot.com/2004/06/martin-luther-refutes-zwingli-other.html
 
Here is a link to Dave Armstrongs Blog. He has researched Luther extensively …
socrates58.blogspot.com/2004/06/martin-luther-refutes-zwingli-other.html
I dug around Mr. Armstrongs’ blog and google. Nothing about Luther having a late night talk with the devil turned up. I would think something like that would be rather more infamous and get a lot of mileage from Luther’s opponents.

I imagine, if anything, Luther had a metaphorical struggle with the devil one night.
 
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