The European Constitution

[English_Papist]

What are the opinions on the forum about the new European constitution? Especially interested in what posters in the affected areas think.

Is it an imperfect but plausible rebuilding of Christendom, is it a power hostile to the church or is it just irrelevant to the concerns of Catholics?

Also what do people think of the (especially English) hierachy’s support for the constitution? An example:

thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/register.cgi/tablet-00981

I have my opinions, but I’d be interested to hear other’s first.

 

[Argh]

I’ve heard that it basically makes speaking out against homosexuality a hate crime, but I have no idea if thats true.

 

[cainem]

i would not trust a british politician as far as i could through him, so what on earth makes them think that we would want a foreign one as well, that is the eu constitution, foreign countries dictating your policies and laws

 

[Norwich]

cainem:

i would not trust a british politician as far as i could through him, so what on earth makes them think that we would want a foreign one as well, that is the eu constitution, foreign countries dictating your policies and laws

Ah, the quiet reasoned voice of tolerance and understanding, just what the average Brit is famous for.

 

[Richardols]

Norwich:

Ah, the quiet reasoned voice of tolerance and understanding, just what the average Brit is famous for.

But, cainem is from Scotland. He’s not a Sassanach and so not an “average Brit.”

 

[English_Papist]

Argh:

I’ve heard that it basically makes speaking out against homosexuality a hate crime, but I have no idea if thats true.

The European Constitution does not regulate speech as far as I’m aware, although some European countries do more or less criminalise Christian views on homosexuality.

 

[English_Papist]

Norwich:

Ah, the quiet reasoned voice of tolerance and understanding, just what the average Brit is famous for.

Tolerance and understanding for politicians?

 

[IsaacSheen]

I’m very interested in this discussion. I live in the U.S. and we don’t hear an even flow of the pros and cons of European policies and changes.

 

[cainem]

don’t get me wrong norwich, it’s just that in general politicians are not to be trusted with any promises that they make once they get in to office,so i’m not being anti eu or xenophobic, but if they want the constitution they must reform accountability, lets start in our own back yard, abolish the house of lords and give you that building as your own devolved english parliament.

 

[Norwich]

cainem:

don’t get me wrong norwich, it’s just that in general politicians are not to be trusted with any promises that they make once they get in to office,so i’m not being anti eu or xenophobic, but if they want the constitution they must reform accountability, lets start in our own back yard, abolish the house of lords and give you that building as your own devolved english parliament.

Interesting statement but, do you realise that without the House of Lords as it is at present, you would now have a bill on the statutes that would allow the Home Secretary (a politician) the right to put you under house arrest with untold restrictions on freedom and liberty without the burden of showing any proof and at the say so of an unknown manderin in Whitehall, all without the ability to go to appeal to the law!!! It was the “Unconstitutional” House of Lords that stopped that in the last week.

Accountability? Yes I agree, it is a problem but how do you ensure accountability in the EU from the outside?

 

[English_Papist]

Norwich:

Accountability? Yes I agree, it is a problem but how do you ensure accountability in the EU from the outside?

How does accountability matter if we are outside the EU? A non-rhetorical question.

The rhetorical question would be “does that mean we have to join America/China/other large power (delete as applicable)”.

Not that this is the point at issue. I’ll come onto this.

 

[English_Papist]

This is my personal view on Europe, and it is specifically from the viewpoint of a British Catholic - I fully accept that it may be different from other points of view.

Europe today is objectively hostile to the Catholic faith. There is quite a bit of evidence for this:

• The rejection of Rocco Buttiglione as justice Commissioner simply for restating Catholic views on homosexuality.
• The European Parliament women’s committee’s call for all member nations to provide abortion services.
• The EU distancing itself from the Doha declaration on the role of the family that declared that “the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society”.
• A proposed Europe-wide recognition of gay marriage (if recognised int he country in which it is contracted).
• The Council of Europe’s moves to legalise Euthanasia.
• The European Union’s refusal to fund any activity connected with World Youth Day.
• A proposed Europe-wide approval of embryonic stem cell research.
• Taking up the slack after the Bush administration’s refusal to fund abortion in developing countries, a program that is itself largely run by the International Planned Parenthood Federation.
• Forcing Catholic countries such as Ireland, Malta and Poland to fund abortion through the overseas aid budget through the Sandbaek report, written by Marie Stopes International (also a beneficiary of the money, rather conveniently).
• John Smeaton, the National Director of the Society to Protect the Unborn Child says that “The EU is becoming one of the foremost promoters of a pro-abortion culture around the world.”
• The European Commission’s Orwellian monitoring of pro-life and family values groups.
• A Vote in the European Parliament to ordain women priests (also tried in relation to the Greek Orthodox Mount Athos)
• A counter-factual refusal to acknowledge Christianity in the European Constitution.

The European constitution itself may be a shot in the arm for the culture of death brigade.

So what are our shepherds doing about this? It seems that they will actually support the constitution and recomend that we, their flock, do the same!

The European Union may once have been recognisably Catholic, but now it is an enemy of the faith. The only problem is that the Catholic church in England and Wales, and elsewhere in Europe, is seemingly unaware of this.