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Sister_Amy
Guest
Islam is quite clear that the “evil eye” does not overcome the will of God.
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KyivAndrew
Guest
The biblical reference to an evil eye as cited from Mark is a sentence which deals with emphasizing that it is what comes out of a person’s’ heart that makes him unclean: the internal evil ideas of killing, committing adultery, the evil eye", which evil eye, given the context must surely mean one’s owneye committing sins such as coveting neighbor’s wife or land. It does not mention an outside force as the evil eye but rather describes one’s own eye (if you look at a woman with lust…etc. ). This I believe is the meaning of the evil eye in the New Testament.
Neither Jesus nor any of the apostles or disciples claimed to have feared some sort of evil eye or curses. None of the Church Fathers I believe gave instructions on how to combat some evil eye.
Its provenance is cultural not religious and would be hard to reconcile with the concept of a merciful God.
Look at the cultures who fear the evil eye. I recall reading the Vatican"s Chief Exorcist, an Italian, explaining that 90% of the exorcisms he conducts are from people suffering from the curses of jealous coworkers. Now, chief exorcist or not, this is wrong. The Vatican really should come out against anyone of their own promoting such views. They are untrue and just cause the faithful more useless worry. I mean this was the same mentality that makes a farmer blame that “witch” next door for his failing crops and dying cows. It makes believers look for all the wrong answers in their explanation of their suffering. I’ve seen believing Catholics become neurotically sick over this worry of curses and the need for exorcism. Where are the fruits of such a superstitious belief?
Putting such an emphasis on a superstitious belief that someone can curse you successfully really does nothing to edify one’s Faith in a loving protector. Indeed, it has a deleterious effect on one’s faith as, instead of living the Gospels, one turns his or her belief system into the learning of the proper hand movements to protect one’s loved ones from the evil eye as opposed to actually enriching one’s faith. It’s wrong and just drives people to neuroses. When Jesus healed the blind man, when asked by his apostles as to the reason of the blind man’s suffering, Jesus did not mention some sort of evil eye or curse as being responsible. In none of Jesus’ many miracles does he say he is curing people of curses or the evil eye. Same holds true for apostles’ miracles.
I believe exorcisms are a real and vital part of the Church, but to use the powerful tool of Exorcism for something trivial like one’s own perception of a coworkers jealosy and worries of being cursed by such person, are way off mark. Satan himself could not have asked for a better way to drown out somebody’s true faith than by having him or her worry incessantly about curses from next door. Christ never taught us to worry about this.
The evil eye concept originated before Christian times from the pagans. It’s a shame that Mediterranean Catholic cultures still hold to these pagan beliefs in curses, including unfortunately some in the hierarchy
God Bless.
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Benjamin8o8
Guest
This is all too interesting, I wished we had more threads talking about what might be superstition such as this thread.
Does anybody have other experiences of the evil eye?
Does anybody have other experiences of the evil eye?
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AnAtheist
Guest
If it helps… He offers an imaginary cure for an imaginary disease. Sounds logical to me.
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Benjamin8o8
Guest
It`s more logical then the foolish belief that life came to existence out of nothing.
“Only the fool says there is no God”.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I’m Sicilian, and I’ve heard of this “Evil Eye” or “malocchio” quite often. It occurs when someone is jealous of someone else. The recipient of the Evil Eye gets some type of malady like a head ache. Sometimes a person supposedly has a “heavy eye” so he or she can cast malocchio quite frequently and inadvertently, just because they are just a miserable person. When that person is around, people usually whisper, “be careful, that person has a heavy eye…” Prompting searches for a protective amulet. If an amulet is not handy, then touching the color red or the last resort, making the “horns” with one’s hand.
Finally there are people who have the gift of removing “malocchio”. What they do is use some means of figuring out who has given the victim the malocchio. What I have seen is pouring oil into a bowl of water, and then interpreting the pattern. So the patterns can mean that there is no malocchio, just a headache, or a man gave the maocchio, or a woman with earrings gave the malocchio. Finally the person does something to remove it. Sometimes it’s easy to remove, sometimes it’s very difficult to remove…
I am told that as a little girl, we visited this family. The divorced daughter who had no children saw me and that I received a big malocchio…so much so that I fainted. I guess I didn’t have a red dress on, our a horn charm. (I guess the reason I fainted is because I had an undiagnosed heart condition…but “malocchio” is so much more interesting.
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Before my reversion, I used to believe these things, more culturally really than actually spiritually. So I would put my hand in the shape of horns is someone was around who could be jealous. I would wear a horn charm…but not anymore.
A better way to protect oneself from evil? Stay close to God, and try to stay in a state of grace. Stay close to the sacraments, especially the Eucharist and Penance.
Finally there are people who have the gift of removing “malocchio”. What they do is use some means of figuring out who has given the victim the malocchio. What I have seen is pouring oil into a bowl of water, and then interpreting the pattern. So the patterns can mean that there is no malocchio, just a headache, or a man gave the maocchio, or a woman with earrings gave the malocchio. Finally the person does something to remove it. Sometimes it’s easy to remove, sometimes it’s very difficult to remove…
I am told that as a little girl, we visited this family. The divorced daughter who had no children saw me and that I received a big malocchio…so much so that I fainted. I guess I didn’t have a red dress on, our a horn charm. (I guess the reason I fainted is because I had an undiagnosed heart condition…but “malocchio” is so much more interesting.
)Before my reversion, I used to believe these things, more culturally really than actually spiritually. So I would put my hand in the shape of horns is someone was around who could be jealous. I would wear a horn charm…but not anymore.
A better way to protect oneself from evil? Stay close to God, and try to stay in a state of grace. Stay close to the sacraments, especially the Eucharist and Penance.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Firstly, one does not need to be possessed to have an exorcism, one can be merely “oppressed”. Secondly, understanding the culture somewhat, usually if someone believes that they have a malocchio, they don’t go to an exorcist first. They go to these people who can remove a malocchio. Sometimes, in doing this, they can end up dabbling in the occult and open up something else more sinister. I think that’s when an exorcist is necessary.
In southern Italy, there have been many instances of people believing in these things, and losing their life savings to a “santone” (la person who can remove curses, perform cures etc) to remove malocchio. I don’t trust these “santoni” to be in unity with the church at all.
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Shin
Guest
I don’t pretend to completely understand it but the evil eye can be due to a demonic spirit or a curse.
If someone stares at someone else with enough hatred or animus (hateful spirit), that curses the other person. Simple as that. What we intend actually matters spiritually. I hope this doesn’t come as a big revelation.
It’s like a prayer for evil, heard by and promoted by some fallen angel or other.
Hurts the person who does it too, often worse than whoever it is aimed at.
Jealousy is a primary motivation.
No one but the very holy are proof against it completely, but the more sanctity in a person the more likely it bounces off.
Forgiveness. This is part of why it’s important.
If someone stares at someone else with enough hatred or animus (hateful spirit), that curses the other person. Simple as that. What we intend actually matters spiritually. I hope this doesn’t come as a big revelation.
It’s like a prayer for evil, heard by and promoted by some fallen angel or other.
Hurts the person who does it too, often worse than whoever it is aimed at.
Jealousy is a primary motivation.
No one but the very holy are proof against it completely, but the more sanctity in a person the more likely it bounces off.
Forgiveness. This is part of why it’s important.
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GodIsGracious
Guest
@KyivAndres:
First of all, thank you for describing what is meant by the “Evil Eye” in regards to the Bible and what Christ teaches. You are still making a distinction: The “Evil Eye” and how it hurts the person’s soul by falling into jealousy, maliciousness, anger, etc. And the “Evil Eye” that many cultures teach that by simply staring at someone means you can cast some sort of spell or curse on them. Isn’t that VooDoo? Or what many Wiccans teach? (Rhetorical question there.)
I can certainly understand that if the “Evil Eye” is in reference to a person who has an “Evil Eye” towards others, i.e. they are jealous, mean them harm, covet their goods, it hurts them spiritually as well as mentally and emotionally.
There is still a distinction there.
@SisterAmy: And this is why your religion and faith is false and weak - that it even teaches that some “thing” or force can actually overcome God.
@Mary Gail 36 Is what you’re describing anything like practicing Santaria?
First of all, thank you for describing what is meant by the “Evil Eye” in regards to the Bible and what Christ teaches. You are still making a distinction: The “Evil Eye” and how it hurts the person’s soul by falling into jealousy, maliciousness, anger, etc. And the “Evil Eye” that many cultures teach that by simply staring at someone means you can cast some sort of spell or curse on them. Isn’t that VooDoo? Or what many Wiccans teach? (Rhetorical question there.)
I can certainly understand that if the “Evil Eye” is in reference to a person who has an “Evil Eye” towards others, i.e. they are jealous, mean them harm, covet their goods, it hurts them spiritually as well as mentally and emotionally.
There is still a distinction there.
@SisterAmy: And this is why your religion and faith is false and weak - that it even teaches that some “thing” or force can actually overcome God.
@Mary Gail 36 Is what you’re describing anything like practicing Santaria?
Mary_Gail_36
New member
GodIsGracious;5171513 said:
Is what you’re describing anything like practicing Santaria?
Not to my knowledge. Santaria is a pagan religion that polytheistic. Images of our Saints are used to represent pagan gods and goddesses. I think it might be distantly related to voodoo.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I’m not sure I agree with you about this. There is a lot of hate in this world…I am sure someone must hate me. To put a curse on someone just by staring at them with hate is too easy, we’d all have curses. Of course evil spirits have powers, but normally Jesus protects us, especially when we are in a state of grace and close to the sacraments.If someone stares at someone else with enough hatred or animus (hateful spirit), that curses the other person. Simple as that. What we intend actually matters spiritually. I hope this doesn’t come as a big revelation.
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Zabdi_Premjit
Guest
I don’t see how this contradicts the belief of Vaskanian (the Church’s term for the “evil eye”). As far as I know, the evil eye harms both the caster and the victim, so it would make sense that Christ says that one’s own evil eye will harm you. Furthermore, talk of an “evil eye” that stems from envy would like be understood as vaskania by all who heard him, considering Jews believe in it. Christ surely knew this, so his wording seems strange to me if he was not speaking of vaskania, as you claim.
If one is afflicted by the evil eye, it is combated by exorcism, participation in the mysteries of the Church, and living a pious life. As I mentioned earlier, the Orthodox Church has exorcism prayers that address the evil eye, and which can be requested from a priest. The prayers were written by St. Basil the Great, who was, of course, a Church Father.
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KyivAndrew
Guest
Firstly, one does not need to be possessed to have an exorcism, one can be merely “oppressed”. Secondly, understanding the culture somewhat, usually if someone believes that they have a malocchio, they don’t go to an exorcist first. They go to these people who can remove a malocchio. Sometimes, in doing this, they can end up dabbling in the occult and open up something else more sinister. I think that’s when an exorcist is necessary.
In southern Italy, there have been many instances of people believing in these things, and losing their life savings to a “santone” (la person who can remove curses, perform cures etc) to remove malocchio. I don’t trust these “santoni” to be in unity with the church at all.
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KyivAndrew
Guest
Mary Gail, thank you for reminding me. I stand corrected. That’s right, exorcism is used also for “oppression”. I knew that but didn’t write it in.Firstly, one does not need to be possessed to have an exorcism, one can be merely “oppressed”. Secondly, understanding the culture somewhat, usually if someone believes that they have a malocchio, they don’t go to an exorcist first. They go to these people who can remove a malocchio. Sometimes, in doing this, they can end up dabbling in the occult and open up something else more sinister. I think that’s when an exorcist is necessary.
In southern Italy, there have been many instances of people believing in these things, and losing their life savings to a “santone” (la person who can remove curses, perform cures etc) to remove malocchio. I don’t trust these “santoni” to be in unity with the church at all.
I also think that in Bernard Ruffin’s book on Padre Pio: The True Story, mention is made of a baby Pio turning ill and having his tummy rubbed a couple of times by one of those santone you have described. Interesting.
At the end of the day, from what I can tell, this belief in an evil eye predates Christ by hundreds of years and spans across many cultures leaving me again with the firm belief that its provenance is absolutely pagan.
God Bless!
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Zabdi_Premjit
Guest
At the end of the day, from what I can tell, these beliefs in prayers, religious art, incense, scriptures, veneration of men, priesthood, supernatural beings, incarnations, etc. predate Christ by thousands of years and spans across all cultures leaving me with the firm belief that their provenance is absolutely pagan.Mary Gail, thank you for reminding me. I stand corrected. That’s right, exorcism is used also for “oppression”. I knew that but didn’t write it in.
I also think that in Bernard Ruffin’s book on Padre Pio: The True Story, mention is made of a baby Pio turning ill and having his tummy rubbed a couple of times by one of those santone you have described. Interesting.
At the end of the day, from what I can tell, this belief in an evil eye predates Christ by hundreds of years and spans across many cultures leaving me again with the firm belief that its provenance is absolutely pagan.
God Bless!
Wow! I just learned that Christianity is pagan is origin!
No, wait…I just remembered that Orthodoxy isn’t based on human knowledge and logic…It’s based in the Trinity, and especially apparent in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit through the life of the Church (i.e. Holy Tradition).
I trust Holy Tradition more than human “wisdom”.
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KyivAndrew
Guest
Zabdi, you are misquoting me. Please do not attribute words to me I never said, though I know perfectly well what are trying to say. All I can say is if we keep arguing like this about an evil eye in a sarcastic fashion, we will help no body to greater understanding.At the end of the day, from what I can tell, these beliefs in prayers, religious art, incense, scriptures, veneration of men, priesthood, supernatural beings, incarnations, etc. predate Christ by thousands of years and spans across all cultures leaving me with the firm belief that their provenance is absolutely pagan.
Wow! I just learned that Christianity is pagan is origin!
No, wait…I just remembered that Orthodoxy isn’t based on human knowledge and logic…It’s based in the Trinity, and especially apparent in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit through the life of the Church (i.e. Holy Tradition).
I trust Holy Tradition more than human “wisdom”.
Sorry, Zabdi, I’m going to bed so won’t be able to respond to anything else now.
May the Lord Bless you!!!
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Shin
Guest
On the contrary you are forgetting the truth that was known even before Judaism, and in Judaism. All mankind knew the truth at one time, both those that fell into superstition and those who did not, and elements of those truth outside of Christianity that are also with it, are evidence of that common origin.At the end of the day, from what I can tell, this belief in an evil eye predates Christ by hundreds of years and spans across many cultures leaving me again with the firm belief that its provenance is absolutely pagan.
God Bless!
Unless We Believe in Scripture We Can Neither Be Christians Nor Be Saved -a sermon on this topic-
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Benjamin8o8
Guest
Have you learned that the Catholic Church predates ORTHODOXY?At the end of the day, from what I can tell, these beliefs in prayers, religious art, incense, scriptures, veneration of men, priesthood, supernatural beings, incarnations, etc. predate Christ by thousands of years and spans across all cultures leaving me with the firm belief that their provenance is absolutely pagan.
Wow! I just learned that Christianity is pagan is origin!
No, wait…I just remembered that Orthodoxy isn’t based on human knowledge and logic…It’s based in the Trinity, and especially apparent in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit through the life of the Church (i.e. Holy Tradition).
I trust Holy Tradition more than human “wisdom”.
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Zabdi_Premjit
Guest
Then what did the Catholic Church believe “before” Orthodoxy? Unorthodoxy?Have you learned that the Catholic Church predates ORTHODOXY?
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Maro_Soliman
Guest
Hello,
I’m Coptic Orthodox and would love to discuss this further with you and try to answer any other questions you may have… I would absolutely love to offer you some assistance since you have mentioned that the priest assigned to your area does not speak English.
Now the evil eye issue is an extremely controversial topic in many cultures. Some believe in it strongly and some find the mere idea to be ridicules. The Coptic Orthodox Church itself does not believe in the evil eye but many Egyptian Christians do. It is an idea that has been impeded in the culture and therefore in the people themselves but religion has nothing to do with it.
I was raised to believe in the power of the cross and that God is our protector and therefore and evil eye or “wish” can not harm me. But once again I’m one among many…
Your husband seems to be taking this to a completely different level, in a way he is letting cultural beliefs over power his faith.
Maro
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