The ex-gay next door

[Peter_J]

Perhaps because I’m a life-long Catholic, I was never really aware of the “ex-gay” movement being very large. (The Catholic Church encourages gay people to be celibate, not to undergo “conversion therapy”.) But just recently it has come to my attention that it just might be a significantly larger movement than I thought, particular among Evangelicals.

My questions, for Protestant brothers and sisters:
(1) How large is the ex-gay movement, to the best of your knowledge?
(2) Growing up Protestant, how aware of it were you? For example, was it something that you heard mentioned in sermons, on occasion?

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Interesting

Heard Fr. Corapi encourage celibacy for homosexuals, years ago

Never heard of it in protestant ranks. You prayed the gay away.

 

[Reepicheep]

My comment: SSA may be like alcoholism. The recovering alcoholic is sober and can remain sober the rest of his life; but he’s never completely free of the temptation. He may not safely drink.

So an ‘ex-gay’ may actually be a ‘recovering gay’. Free of the ‘gay lifestyle’ but needing to watch out for temptation.

 

[Seamus_L]

As Catholics we believe it’s possible for a person with little or no chance of survival to fully recover from a deadly disease. Yet we should believe it’s impossible for a person to change from a homosexual to a heterosexual orientation.

 

[Peter_J]

Interesting

Heard Fr. Corapi encourage celibacy for homosexuals, years ago

Never heard of it in protestant ranks. You prayed the gay away.

Heh. Yeah, I’ve heard of “pray the gay away” too.

I certainly try to be kind to our separated brothers and sisters, online and offline, including Evangelicals but … well, let’s just say that I’m glad I’m Catholic.

 

[Dorothy]

As Catholics we believe it’s possible for a person with little or no chance of survival to fully recover from a deadly disease. Yet we should believe it’s impossible for a person to change from a homosexual to a heterosexual orientation.

And, if their orientation isn’t changed, then by the grace of God, if they seek it, they can remain chaste.

 

[Seamus_L]

Absolutely Dorothy. It’s seems like some Evangelicals are saying a person’s orientation can always be changed through prayer, while some Catholics seem to be saying that a person’s orientation can never be changed through prayer.

 

[LutheranScholar]

That particular topic was never actually a topic we discussed in Sunday School growing up. There was a time when one of my teachers jokingly referred to Michael Jackson as Michelle Jackson, but that was all.

 

[Sarcelle]

Absolutely Dorothy. It’s seems like some Evangelicals are saying a person’s orientation can always be changed through prayer, while some Catholics seem to be saying that a person’s orientation can never be changed through prayer.

If gay people can be changed from gay to straight than it is possible to be changed from straight to gay.

So I ask straight people here, do you think it is possible to change your orientation?

Speaking as a straight, I do not think I can change from straight to gay.

 

[Seamus_L]

I’m talking about changing one’s orientation through prayer. I like to believe no one would ever pray to change from a heterosexual to a homosexual orientation.

 

[Thorolfr]

Perhaps because I’m a life-long Catholic, I was never really aware of the “ex-gay” movement being very large. (The Catholic Church encourages gay people to be celibate, not to undergo “conversion therapy”.) But just recently it has come to my attention that it just might be a significantly larger movement than I thought, particular among Evangelicals.

My questions, for Protestant brothers and sisters:
(1) How large is the ex-gay movement, to the best of your knowledge?
(2) Growing up Protestant, how aware of it were you? For example, was it something that you heard mentioned in sermons, on occasion?

I’m not sure how large the ex-gay movement is and I never heard it mentioned in sermons when I was growing up (Baptist).

Overall, I think that the size and influence of the ex-gay movement is probably shrinking. Most gay people who go to ex-gay ministries do so because, as noted by a report from the American Psychological Association, “Ex-gay groups appear to relieve the distress caused by conflicts between religious values and sexual orientation and help participants change their sexual orientation identity, but not their sexual orientation.” But since the overall influence of religion in general, especially among young people, is shrinking, most younger gay people probably do not experience the same psychological distress as was formerly the case. There are also a lot more churches that now accept gay people.

The biggest ex-gay umbrella network, Exodus International, closed down in 2013 and its president, Alan Chambers, even issued an apology to the gay community:

I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have experienced. I am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt when your attractions didn’t change. I am sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatized parents.

The year before, Chambers wrote:

I do not believe that cure is a word that is applicable to really any struggle, homosexuality included, for someone to put out a shingle and say, “I can cure homosexuality”—that to me is as bizarre as someone saying they can cure any other common temptation or struggle that anyone faces on Planet Earth.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International

Some of the churches that use Rick Warren’s (Saddleback Church) religious 12-step program called Celebrate Recovery do include homosexuality as one of the hurts or addictions that they help people overcome, but I think that fewer of these Celebrate Recovery programs address homosexuality any more.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Heh. Yeah, I’ve heard of “pray the gay away” too.

I certainly try to be kind to our separated brothers and sisters, online and offline, including Evangelicals but … well, let’s just say that I’m glad I’m Catholic.

Praise God

 

[Lenten_ashes]

If gay people can be changed from gay to straight than it is possible to be changed from straight to gay.

So I ask straight people here, do you think it is possible to change your orientation?

Speaking as a straight, I do not think I can change from straight to gay.

Straight guys go into prison and come out homosexual or bisexual. So yes, it’s possible to change it but not likely, imo.

I agree with Fr. Corapi’s opinion that if you only have same sex attraction then unfortunately, you are called to celibacy. Hard is that is to accept

 

[MichaelP3]

Perhaps because I’m a life-long Catholic, I was never really aware of the “ex-gay” movement being very large. (The Catholic Church encourages gay people to be celibate, not to undergo “conversion therapy”.) But just recently it has come to my attention that it just might be a significantly larger movement than I thought, particular among Evangelicals.

My questions, for Protestant brothers and sisters:
(1) How large is the ex-gay movement, to the best of your knowledge?
(2) Growing up Protestant, how aware of it were you? For example, was it something that you heard mentioned in sermons, on occasion?

Although I do not know of an ex-gay, I have a personal experience (maybe not that close but close enough to be closer then the “I heard about it”) of a gay individual. He really did not want it, studied and even became a Protestant minister, married and had a child. 7 years later left his family and living with his boyfriend now.

What I am getting to, is that trying to wish it away is not always the better option. You may end up destroying many more lives.

 

[Peter_J]

The biggest ex-gay umbrella network, Exodus International, closed down in 2013 and its president, Alan Chambers, even issued an apology to the gay community:

Earlier, while seeking info about how the Evangelical approach differs from the Catholic approach, I came across an old statement from Chambers about it not being enough to live a “celibate gay life”:

just living a celibate gay life is just as sinful as living a sexually promiscuous one

I don’t know how many other statements like that he made, but definitely think an apology was in order – although addressing it to “the gay community” may not have been the best choice. (I’m not even going to inquire as to whether some of the posters with Religion:Catholic in their profiles agree with the aforementioned “just as sinful” idea. I just don’t even want to know.)

Sad that Exodus closed down just when they were (I guess) embracing a more Catholic stance.

 

[Sarcelle]

Although I do not know of an ex-gay, I have a personal experience (maybe not that close but close enough to be closer then the “I heard about it”) of a gay individual. He really did not want it, studied and even became a Protestant minister, married and had a child. 7 years later left his family and living with his boyfriend now.

What I am getting to, is that trying to wish it away is not always the better option. You may end up destroying many more lives.

Which is why celibacy seems to be the better option. The same sex attraction may not go away even how hard one prays.

However celibacy seems to be something that a lot of Protestants seem to have a hard time understanding. The pressure to get married is tremendous in some Protestant denominations.

 

[Thorolfr]

Earlier, while seeking info about how the Evangelical approach differs from the Catholic approach, I came across an old statement from Chambers about it not being enough to live a “celibate gay life”:

I don’t know how many other statements like that he made, but definitely think an apology was in order – although addressing it to “the gay community” may not have been the best choice. (I’m not even going to inquire as to whether some of the posters with Religion:Catholic in their profiles agree with the aforementioned “just as sinful” idea. I just don’t even want to know.)

Sad that Exodus closed down just when they were (I guess) embracing a more Catholic stance.

Mr. Chambers (with whom I had a number of online debates about 17 years ago) probably made his statement that “just living a celibate gay life is just as sinful as living a sexually promiscuous one” because most Protestants think or used to think that a gay person can change their sexual orientation with God’s help and that failure to do so is a failure of faith and a lack of trust in God’s healing power. For most Protestants, celibacy is so strongly identified with the Catholic Church that they are biased against it as a matter of choice.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Although I do not know of an ex-gay, I have a personal experience (maybe not that close but close enough to be closer then the “I heard about it”) of a gay individual. He really did not want it, studied and even became a Protestant minister, married and had a child. 7 years later left his family and living with his boyfriend now.
.

I shouldn’t laugh as it’s tragic he left his family. but the way you stated it made it comical.

I don’t know of any success stories outside maybe Donnie Mcclurkin.

Went to a service one time where he told us what happened to him. He was raped by a older family member and became a homosexual from a young age…battled it and eventually became straight. But most of these cases seem pretty hopeless in regards to hoping it just goes away. I think just consecrating their life to the Lord and becoming celibate is the best option, hard as that can be. Otherwise they risk hurting a lot of people down the line, like the fellow you refer to…

 

[Thorolfr]

He was raped by a older family member and became a homosexual from a young age…

You make it sound as if there is some causal link between getting raped and becoming a homosexual. Not all gay people were raped or suffered some sort of sexual trauma as a child.

 

[Deus_tecum]

As Catholics we believe it’s possible for a person with little or no chance of survival to fully recover from a deadly disease. Yet we should believe it’s impossible for a person to change from a homosexual to a heterosexual orientation.

A belief in permanent inborn homosexuality is a sacred cow of the liberal, and that apparently trumps previously held Catholic faith.