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Thorolfr
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rcwitness
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Aren’t we all?Gay people aren’t “broken”…
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Thorolfr
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Not in the way Reepicheep was implying…
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rcwitness
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A gay person’s sexuality is broken from what God created in man. Just like my sexuality is broken if I am turning to porn, or masturbation, or sex (sexual gratification) with women apart from my wife.
Homosexuality is a disorder of the God created sexuality. The order is broken.
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benjohnson
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Please stop being sensible. It’s really hard as a Lutheran to paint Catholics as being wrong if you Catholics keep talking sense.
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Peter_J
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Since I agreed with “It’s easier to break what’s whole than to repair what’s broken” perhaps I should add another word or two.Gay people aren’t “broken”…
Just as sometimes a homosexual person has become “ex-gay” through electroshock therapy (*not *that all ex-gay therapy involves electroshock therapy by any means), so too I believe that sometimes a heterosexual person has become “ex-straight” through a traumatic event. (And, if you want to extend the terminology, he/she might later become “ex-ex-straight”.)
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Peter_J
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Peter_J
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“A little nonsense now and again, is relished by the wisest of men”
- Willy Wonka
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Kielbasi
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I don’t really hold to the idea of “orientation”, there is only behavior and people change that all of the time. I’ve seen statistics that as many as 1/3 of the men out there have engaged in “gay” behavior during their lives, the vast majority of them turn away from this sin either sooner or later.
This has been studied extensively, there is nothing different in the brains, in the hormones, blood chemistry or genes between “gays” and “straights”. And the roster of those famous people who have publicly "changed orientation (Bowie, Elton John, Anne Heche) is long enough that I got to conclude that “orientation” is a myth.
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Peter_J
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An addendum: when I started this thread I had in mind the use of *psychotherapy *to change sexual orientation … But of course there are also many Evangelicals who advocate for “praying the gay away”.
Well anyhow, an interesting tidbit came to my attention. It’s something Linda Harvey of Mission America said on the radio:
*“[Will] can marry a woman and someday when he is, we can all pray, a former homosexual, perhaps he will choose to exercise the option he has right now. I do hope you will join me in praying for this young man.”
*What’s interesting is that Ms. Harvey has apparently never met Will, but only knows of him because he is the son of a U.S. Senator.
(I’m also guessing many of us are old enough to remember a Vice Presidential debate in 2000 in which the sexual orientation of one candidate’s daughter became a topic of discussion … but now I’m getting off-topic.)
Well anyhow, an interesting tidbit came to my attention. It’s something Linda Harvey of Mission America said on the radio:
*“[Will] can marry a woman and someday when he is, we can all pray, a former homosexual, perhaps he will choose to exercise the option he has right now. I do hope you will join me in praying for this young man.”
*What’s interesting is that Ms. Harvey has apparently never met Will, but only knows of him because he is the son of a U.S. Senator.
(I’m also guessing many of us are old enough to remember a Vice Presidential debate in 2000 in which the sexual orientation of one candidate’s daughter became a topic of discussion … but now I’m getting off-topic.)
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ProdigalSun
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Wow! that is quite the statistic… 33% of american men have played with gay sex at some time in their life. Can you elaborate on that stat for me please?
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RCinMT
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This is a complicated question: scientists has been searching for the “gay gene” for thirty years and haven’t found it. It seems that there’s mounting evidence that homosexuality is not genetic. However, the brain is another matter: brains can be “rewired” as a result of prolonged exposure to different stimuli or phenomena. To wit, viewing pornography has been shown to change neuropaths.
I heard yesterday that a recent study(ies) that may illustrate correlation of some early childhood experiences (weak father, no father, no male role model) with increased likelihood of SSA. Strong emphasis on may as the possibility of the correlation was not stated as a concrete finding of the study, only that there’s evidence pointing to the need for further study.
In any event, we love our SSA brothers and sisters the same as we love all of our brothers and sisters. We’re sinners all!
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Thorolfr
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The theories about weak fathers and controlling mothers or other kinds of family dynamics having something to do with homosexuality have been around for decades and have not been proven. There are lots of gay men who did not grow up in a family that fits this pattern and did not suffer any kind of sexual trauma as children.
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RCinMT
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This study which I heard discussed was showing a strong correlation. As mentioned, in the absence of any proof of homosexuality being hereditary or genetic despite a prolonged period of research–research that is ongoing and may indeed eventually find a gene or some other proof–it’s responsible to consider other possibilities.
So we’re in the same boat: there’s no scientific proof nor any psychological or neurological proof. In light of that, continuing to examine possibilities is appropriate. Otherwise the only argument is that there’s no proof of nurture or nature being the controlling factor. Contemporary logic would tell us–in these cases–that we default to an explanation of nature, which is logically counter intuitive to me.
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Kielbasi
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Sure, it comes from the Kinsey Report from 1948, and the number is 37%
Since then, of course, homosexuality has become a lot more acceptable in the modern age, so it may be higher than it was 68 years ago.
well.com/~aquarius/kinsey21.htm
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Peter_J
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There’s this. (I can’t make any claims about it’s reliability, I just found it.)
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Thorolfr
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Just because a genetic component of homosexuality has not yet been found does not mean that it won’t be found in the future (and most scientists seem to think that sexual orientation is a combination of both nature and nurture). I myself had 10 million base pairs of my Y-chromosome DNA sequenced for genealogical purposes and that’s just a part of one chromosome (the whole Y-chromosome has about 59 million base pairs). Scientists still don’t know what a lot of our DNA does.
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Lea101
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Conversion therapy is ridiculous and nobody should be supporting it.
We do not know exactly what causes someone to be gay. Yes, some people go through situations which made them this way. But there are people who come from wholesome families with a good childhood who say that they remember being attracted to the same sex for as long as possible. Also know that being gay is not a choice…and it’s not just sexual desire but they genuinely have romantic feelings towards their partner.
I feel like because there is no actual proof, it’s hard for people to understand. I guess the easiest way to understand it is that it’s our fallen nature. Broken sexuality-SSA, and lust which is something we all experience.
I would say to not be so preoccupied about this (what makes someone gay). SSA cannot be helped and they are called to a chaste life, that’s what we should know. And they do need extra love and encouragement. I cannot imagine being in a situation where I cannot marry the person I love/be intimate with them because of something I cannot control.
We do not know exactly what causes someone to be gay. Yes, some people go through situations which made them this way. But there are people who come from wholesome families with a good childhood who say that they remember being attracted to the same sex for as long as possible. Also know that being gay is not a choice…and it’s not just sexual desire but they genuinely have romantic feelings towards their partner.
I feel like because there is no actual proof, it’s hard for people to understand. I guess the easiest way to understand it is that it’s our fallen nature. Broken sexuality-SSA, and lust which is something we all experience.
I would say to not be so preoccupied about this (what makes someone gay). SSA cannot be helped and they are called to a chaste life, that’s what we should know. And they do need extra love and encouragement. I cannot imagine being in a situation where I cannot marry the person I love/be intimate with them because of something I cannot control.
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Kielbasi
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Current psychiatric and medical treatment might not be as effective as it could be in dealing with this.Conversion therapy is ridiculous and nobody should be supporting it.
However, the facts are that many, many, many people have had this problem resolve itself spontaneously without formal medical/psychiatric treatment.
Giving up on developing treatments, just because there has been some frustration by researchers isn’t the compassionate thing to do and it isn’t the american thing to do either- as Americans love to solve difficult enigmas.
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