The Existence of other gods: My predicament

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Trelow:
I think “I AM” is how He put it.

Simply amazing how one could study those two little words their whole life and never scratch the surface.
Interesting isn’t it? God never refers to himself in the past or future tense - always in the present tense. He also, in the form of Jesus, is the Alpha and the Omega - Beginning and End. It is truly loving how God explains the things to us that we question, but sometimes we are incapable of grasping that.
 
Seeks God:
Interesting isn’t it? God never refers to himself in the past or future tense - always in the present tense. He also, in the form of Jesus, is the Alpha and the Omega - Beginning and End. It is truly loving how God explains the things to us that we question, but sometimes we are incapable of grasping that.
Just the fact that we can’t understand or explain something but still believe it has to show that we are created by a higher being. Makes you feel pretty dang puny, and so gratefull at the same time.

It’s no small matter that by and far the most religious scientists are in astronomy. They are confronted with that fact each and every day.
 
Kyle8921:

As stated in many responses above you are hung-up on “time.” And I am convinced that you have no understanding of “infinity or infinite.” Infinity is badly used in science and mathmatics to mean “greater than needed in a partcular computation.” One definition of parallel lines is two lines extending to “infinity” that always remain the same distance apart. The word “infinity” is misused. That definition realy means that two lines are extended far beyond the length of the practical application and remain the same distance apart. “Infinity” means no limit, no definition, no qualification, no description, no time, no space, no size, no place. There cannot be two infinite existences, because one would have to end where the other begain, therefore neither would be infinite.

Next, “time” does not exist. Time is a organizational tool devised by man to keep track of change. God created a Universe of constant change. It is orderly change and man has devised time as a method to keep track of the changes. The is no such thing as a “year.” A year is one complete orbit of the earth around the sun. There is no such thing as a mile; like time it is a man-devised method to measure space between objects.

God is Absolute BEING, Absolute Intelligence, Absolute WILL. He has no attributes, because any attribute you might apply to Him (All Merciful) is infinite. There is no room outside of infinite for anything else. If you say He is All Just, that is infinite and there is no room outside for anything else. Etc., etc., Therefore His Mercy and Justice are One and the same and cannot be separated from His Infinite Being.

There is no way any human mind can understand this, and no one not even the Blessed Virgin can fully comprehend God. Only God can. As stated by others there is no “time” before or after creation, because time is man’s invention to keep track of change in God’s creation, the material Universe.
 
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GeorgeCooney:
God is Absolute BEING, Absolute Intelligence, Absolute WILL. He has no attributes, because any attribute you might apply to Him (All Merciful) is infinite. There is no room outside of infinite for anything else. If you say He is All Just, that is infinite and there is no room outside for anything else. Etc., etc., Therefore His Mercy and Justice are One and the same and cannot be separated from His Infinite Being…
It would be more prudent to say that “He is His attributes " than” He has no attributes ".
 
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Trelow:
It would be more prudent to say that “He is His attributes " than” He has no attributes ".
But doesn’t God feel emotions like we do? I thought I read that before… Anything which can feel emotions is subject to change, especially if not only to an outside source.
 
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kyle8921:
Anything which can feel emotions is subject to change, especially if not only to an outside source.
Says who?

I know you’re struggling with this stuff, but if it makes you feel better remember this: many people much, much, much more intelligent than you and I have thought about these same questions over the ages and their faith has not been shaken. Just a thought.🙂
 
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kyle8921:
If God is infinite, and we aren’t infinite, than he must’ve done things before we existed, or else he just was and did nothing.

Something must have caused him to create us, and that something must have come from an outside source, meaning there are other beings besides God!

A perfect, infinite being does not one day decide to create an entire world and universe without an outside source altering that perfection, or at least thought.

Can someone help me out here?
1.) though shalt have no other Gods before me" — God

This might imply the existance of other gods. This is plausible since we know about 1/1000000000000000000000000000 of all that could be in God’s existance…

now the question is “Do you really care”…
I will stake my soul on just worshiping Him.
If there are other gods, they are irrelevent.
 
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kyle8921:
But doesn’t God feel emotions like we do? I thought I read that before… Anything which can feel emotions is subject to change, especially if not only to an outside source.
The only reason we try and define God in human terms is because that’s all we are capable of understanding. You are tring to limit God to what you can understand. Ain’t gonna happen.
 
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kyle8921:
Even if he “just is,” what caused him to “do?” It must have been an outside source, right? Something that “is” is unchangeable. If you leave a rock that “just is” on the ground and nothing comes along to change it, that rock will continue to “just be.”
free will.

nothing caused god to create. nothing caused god to create. he chose to create.
 
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Trelow:
The only reason we try and define God in human terms is because that’s all we are capable of understanding. You are tring to limit God to what you can understand. Ain’t gonna happen.
Really. It’s sort of like a dog chasing its tail for a human to try and understand God. Our minds are just incapable of understanding everything about Him.

Aunt Martha
 
Sgt Sweaters:
Yeah, but then what caused that outside source to cause our God to do anything? Another outside source? You’re talking yourself into infinite regression.
Yep. Turtles all the way down.
 
Seeks God:
Interesting isn’t it? God never refers to himself in the past or future tense - always in the present tense. He also, in the form of Jesus, is the Alpha and the Omega - Beginning and End. It is truly loving how God explains the things to us that we question, but sometimes we are incapable of grasping that.
“Before Abraham was, I am.” It’s enough to give you the tingles!
 
VociMike said:
“Before Abraham was, I am.” It’s enough to give you the tingles!

for real.

one of my favorites is “i saw satan fall from heaven like lightning”.

wow.
 
Sgt Sweaters:
Yeah, but then what caused that outside source to cause our God to do anything? Another outside source? You’re talking yourself into infinite regression.

(which is impossible)
Yes, questions like this are better left alone. Infinite regression comes and despair along with it.
 
It must have been an outside source, right?
No.
God is infinite. He has “everything” right “inside” Him, so to speak.
And once again, your concept of “time” is an artificial limit. God created time, therefore He cannot exist in it. To think of him as existing “before” a point in time is meaningless.
 
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kyle8921:
But doesn’t God feel emotions like we do? I thought I read that before… Anything which can feel emotions is subject to change, especially if not only to an outside source.
No, God does not “feel” emotions like we do. God IS.

I recommend you read Book 11 of the Confessionsl of Saint Augustine, and follow that up by reading Steven Hawking’s “A Short History of Time.”
 
(This may end up launching another thread) …… But …

All of this leads me to wonder what image is created in man’s mind as he prays to God. A physical image? Light? What is it you love? How do you imagine it?
 
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kyle8921:
Even if he “just is,” what caused him to “do?” It must have been an outside source, right? Something that “is” is unchangeable. If you leave a rock that “just is” on the ground and nothing comes along to change it, that rock will continue to “just be.”
Read Frank Sheed’s *Theology and Sanity. *He covers this question with complete lucidity. He begins from the premise that “imagination” is the death of theology. Your presumption regarding time and and outside cause lie in the realm of “image” rather than of thought.
 
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kyle8921:
If God is infinite, and we aren’t infinite, than he must’ve done things before we existed, or else he just was and did nothing.

Something must have caused him to create us, and that something must have come from an outside source, meaning there are other beings besides God!

A perfect, infinite being does not one day decide to create an entire world and universe without an outside source altering that perfection, or at least thought.

Can someone help me out here?

God is infinite has always existed, His being is the fullness of being and therefore requires no activity, he cannot be more active by acting than he already is by being. He IS. there is no such thing as “One day I will wake up and decide to make stars” with God. There is no time, no progression beyond IS.
You state: a perfect infinite being does not one day decide to create. Quite right, he does not do something one day because their is no yesterday, today or tomorrow for God. How do you know what God does and why he does it? Are you God? Do you claim knowledge of his interior life? Read the Book of Job for an insight into the infinite difference between the Creator and the creature. Your problem is the common one of limiting God to human ability to understand him, which is so miniscule and insignificant as to be laughable, were it not that God does want us to know and understand him. This cannot be accomplished by any action of ours but only by Him, through His gift. Spend the time wasted on such fruitless speculation on obeying his commands and opening yourself to his gifts.
 
Kyle,

After reading your question and all the replies, I went back and looked at your profile. At your age, I was asking the same questions, and more. I was in Catholic school. For a time, a group of students would sit around at lunch time and think up all of the “what ifs”. We, with the help of a beautiful nun, decided to just accept the fact that our knowledge here on earth is limited, no matter how intelligent we are, we will never understand God totally until He calls us to be with Him. Until then, pray, read the scriptures, obey His laws and have a great life. Life would be easier if we had all the answers, or so we think. Just remember, if God wanted us to know ALL, He would have given us that power.

Love and Peace
 
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