The Fall / Mormons

[PaulDupre]

tkdnick:

Another interesting tidbit about their belief in heaven. They believe God the father actually has a physical living place. I’m not positive, but I think it’s is by a star called Zoron. I’ll have to check on the name, but they believe there is a physical dwelling place and that that is the highest level of heaven.

They believe that their god lives on a planet that revolves around a star named Kolob. The Mormon god is a physical being and therefore cannot be omni-present. He is also limited in many other ways. Joseph Smith taught that “God never had the power to create the universe.”. They believe that gods “organize” (but cannot create) worlds from already-existing matter. Mormons are taught that matter always existed, but their gods did not. Their gods actually arose and evolved from a type of matter they call “intelligence”. Completely different from the Judeo-Christian concept of the eternal almighty self-existent creator God.

 

[ContraFool]

Thanks very much for that. It does give me hope for her, especially when I’m able to comfort her in times of trouble with words from my Catholic theology books. But on the other hand, as much as she is interested about learning things about Catholicism, she seems just as interested about learning about other religions. She’s always getting her friends of various religions to take her to their services. I took her to Mass, Adoration, and Benediction once. She was pretty impressed by all of it, but concluded she could never kneel long enough to be a Catholic. But yes, I would say overall that she is very contrary to the anti-Catholic image that most Catholics think of when they think of Mormons. Actually, so does her whole family. I can tell that her mother likes that I’m religious. I think it makes her feel safe when I’m alone with her daughter. She even lets me be in her bedroom alone with her, which is supposed to be a big No No I am told. So it is for these reasons I CANNOT understand where people get the idea Mormons are anti-Catholic, because I just simply don’t see it.

Sophie:

God bless you and don’t give up on your efforts in showing your Mormon friend Catholicism. Remember, Greek Mythology is not the word of God. The Catholic Church is ! Your friend might be listening alot more than she is letting on. With Mormons their beliefs are their way of life. Starting to doubt these beliefs can cause confusion in a Mormon that they do not want to deal with psychologically. If they should start to even doubt or question the Mormon church they are told they are being influenced by Satan because of some sin they have commited and are made to feel something is wrong with them and they are the problem. If they leave the organization, they are quite often shunned by everyone they know who is Mormon. Family and friends alike will no longer speak to them. In predominately Mormon populated areas, Mormons will even loose thier jobs if they leave the Mormons and they have a Mormon employer.

What your teaching your friend about the Church, might be making great sense to her, but she may lack the courage to do much about it. But you are doing your job as a child of God. God tells us His word never returns void to Him. Even if you have planted some small seed in her soul, that is what is most important. That seed, possibly together with other truths about the Church she has heard in the past from someone else and she may hear in the future, might someday take root. It took St. Augustine 30 years (and alot of praying on the part of his mother) to find his way back home to the Church. God bless you for doing your best and fighting the good fight.

“God doesn’t expect us to be successfull, He expects us to be faithful.” - Mother Teresa

 

[ContraFool]

LOL. That sounds like something off of Star Trek!! Oy…I’ve got to get my friend away from this.

PaulDupre:

They believe that their god lives on a planet that revolves around a star named Kolob. The Mormon god is a physical being and therefore cannot be omni-present. He is also limited in many other ways. Joseph Smith taught that “God never had the power to create the universe.”. They believe that gods “organize” (but cannot create) worlds from already-existing matter. Mormons are taught that matter always existed, but their gods did not. Their gods actually arose and evolved from a type of matter they call “intelligence”. Completely different from the Judeo-Christian concept of the eternal almighty self-existent creator God.

 

[PaulDupre]

ContraFool:

So it is for these reasons I CANNOT understand where people get the idea Mormons are anti-Catholic, because I just simply don’t see it.

I am an ex-Mormon and I can tell you that Mormons are some of the most anti-Catholic people on earth. It is part of the Mormon proselytizing method to never appear anti-anything to your face. But in their sermons and in their private conversations they call us “statue worshippers”, “cannibals” (for our belief in the Real Presence) and many other perjoratives. It was hearing all the anti-Catholic lies coming from LDS leaders that started me doubting that it was the “true church”. I was raised Catholic, so I knew that what they were saying was not accurate. When I confronted the leaders about their lies and distortions, they threatened me with Church discipline if I didn’t keep my mouth shut.

 

[Sophie]

GOD BLESS YOU PAULDUPRE! PRAISE GOD THAT HE HAS GIVEN YOU THE GRACE TO SEE HIS TRUTH AND BROUGHT YOU BACK HOME TO JESUS!!

 

[flameburns623]

Some general advice for this thread: a lot of what is being posted reaffirms Roman Catholic antipathy for Mormonism without really reaching the place where one could engage a devout Mormon in dialogue. Some LDS books to read:

The Articles of Faith by James Talmage

Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage

**A Marvelous Work and a Wonder **by LeGrand Richards

The House of the Lord by James Talmage (Talmage is a classic LDS writer, greatly revered).

**Church History in the Fulness of Times **distributed by the LDS Church (Church Distribution)

Gospel Principles Church Distribution

An Approach to the Book of Mormon by Hugh Nibley

The Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H Roberts (another much-revered classic LDS apologist–who is rumored to have suffered doubts about his Mormon faith in his declining years, btw).

Encylopedia of Mormonism (Not suggesting anyone read the whole set but selected articles as needed)

**The Work and the Glory **Gerald Lund (9-volume fictional account of Joseph Smith–good intro to LDS history).

You’ll find many of these in a public library or available there via inter-library loan. Your girlfriends’ Ward library may also lend you some of them as well. And offer to lend you gobs of others. No need to buy them all nor to read them all: you simply want to gain real insight into the mind and spirituality of Mormonism. These, plus the LDS ‘Standard Works’ (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, along with the King James Bible) will give you plenty of grasp of basic Mormonism. Just making the effort to learn will help keep dialogue open. If all you do is read ‘anti-Mormon’ stuff–you’ll hit the shoals of irresolvable disagreement pretty quickly. Especially when you stumble across something which is clearly inaccurate and/or hateful in it’s presentation.

Over and beyond this I heartily advise people to read and study orthodox Christian doctrine and learn how to explain it to others and answer the most-common objections raised. Far better to learn the attributes of the authentic than to try to recognize every possible manifestation of the counterfeit.

 

[tkdnick]

Gotta go with flameburns last comment. It is far more important to know your own faith than it is to know all the counters to someone else’s. I have very good friends who are LDS members and I wanted so badly to bring them out of Mormonism that I started doing research on the LDS faith. Then I realized something very important. Isaiah Bennett, in one of his books, said it was extremely important that before engaging Mormon missionaries, you needed to have a true grasp of your Catholic faith. I realized that I didn’t really know what I was trying to bring them to! I didn’t really understand my Catholic faith. It’s much easier to talk to someone of another faith if you have a solid grasp of your own!

 

[rich123456]

I would love to have a conversation with one of the LDS faith who may be around these postings. I do live in Utah and have spoken to many. I once had two missionaries approach me while I was opening the door to our Church. They asked me why I was going in. Most would never do this but these two did. We sat on the lawn for about a half hour then we attended the Bible study together. After the Bible study they asked to see the chapel. In the chapel they had many questions and asked them to us. I felt that God was happy that two of his children were home if only for a moment. It was a good night to be Catholic in Utah. I think that one of the best conversations we could have here would be about the Fall in the Garden.

Peace in Christ

Rich