The Fall !

[Hope3]

General question.

Is there anyone else, besides myself, who has the feeling that the difference between Adam’s original sin and personal sin is unintentionally being downplayed?

Adam’s original sin was his own personal sin. However, his sin was and is the ultimate generational sin since it affects all his descendants (except for Jesus and Mary by divine intervention). Adam sinned while he was in fellowship with God. He sinned willingly. Adam’s descendants are not born with Adam’s original advantage of purity in which he was created nor with his original advantage of clarity of his intellect which was undimmed by sin.

This is what makes Adam’s original sin more serious than our own personal sins. His sin caused him to fall from grace (he lost sanctifying grace which is spiritual fellowship with God) and it also caused all of his descendants to be born without sanctifying grace. Without sanctifying grace in a person’s soul, there is no spiritual fellowship with God and no chance of eternal life.

However, this is not an excuse for us to sin. Whether we enter into eternal life or not depends on if we are still in a spiritual relationship with God at the instant of our deaths. If we are still abiding in sanctifying grace at the instant of our deaths, then we will inherit eternal life. If we have sinned the sins that lead to death (mortal sins) and have not repented of them before death, then we will not enter into eternal life. Mortal sin causes the loss of sanctifying grace. If sanctifying grace (Holy Spirit) is not in our souls at the time of our deaths, then there is no hope of salvation and there will be no eternal life for us.

Jesus had to die on the cross in order to make it possible for us to be reconciled to God and this is because Adam’s sin made us God’s enemies (spiritually speaking). Because of Adam’s sin all mankind must die. Because of Adam’s sin heaven’s gate was closed so that eternal fellowship with God after death was prevented.

Romans 5:10
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Nothing could reconcile us to God after Adam’s sin except for Jesus’ sacrifice. This is why Ephesians 2:8 states, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

No works of ours, whether works of the Law of Moses or of our own righteous (good) works, could ever reconcile us to God after Adam’s sin. Only Jesus could reconcile man(kind) to God and this is because only Jesus is both God and Man. Jesus’ perfect sacrifice which He offered to God atoned for Adam’s sin and this is what gives us hope of eternal life once more. Jesus’ death opened the gates of heaven so that it is now possible for mankind to enter into eternal fellowship with God after death. His sacrifice does not automatically guarantee eternal life for all mankind, but it gives each person the possibility of eternal life.

Whether a person is actually approved to enter into eternal life depends first on whether he (or she) becomes baptized which is what reconciles him spiritually to God and then whether he continues to be reconciled to God by his own conduct until his death.

John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I’ve read Deut 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, Ezek 18:20, 33:20, Jer 31:29-30 and other passages that cause me to wonder about punishment of the children of sinners.

 

[Crumpy]

I’ve read Deut 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, Ezek 18:20, 33:20, Jer 31:29-30 and other passages that cause me to wonder about punishment of the children of sinners.

And, you’re wondering what? Why are the children punished?

Yeah, I can understand that maybe you’re interpreting that to mean that there is some collective, family guilt for sin, for reasons known only to God.

Look at it this way. My grandfather was an alcoholic and it has affected everyone in the family, from his generation down to a couple generations after me. He made the family so dysfunctional, in ways that couldn’t be repaired and the problems still linger from that dysfunctional situation.

So, maybe it is referring to the enormous consequences of sin, that ripple out to other people, certainly to everyone living around the sinner. Perhaps this example shows you that this is possible. When it is possible, then maybe you can see the effects of other sins, like abortion, LYING, infidelity, divorce, public crimes, etc. rippling out in people who are damaged by it.

That’s the way the matter has stuck in my head, THE ENORMOUS CONSEQUENCES OF SIN. It explains so many things we see around us, so many problems that people have.

And, while we’re at it, talking about sin of ‘others,’ look how powerful forgiveness is in those situations, virtually the only thing that can repair all that damage.

 

[grannymh]

I don’t understand the question.

I understand the answer. Thanks.

 

[grannymh]

Yes, at the fall, man rejected the only true Good and source of his life and happiness for lesser, created goods. The result is a “lesser” kind of life, where we can experience both the good of Gods creation and the evil of being separated from Him-in a world essentially in rebellion against Him. And now, during his exile from God in this life we have, man has the opportunity to learn of his loss, to gain the wisdom to recognize his need for Him and come to fathom His inestimable worth, and turn back to Him.

Well said.

 

[StrawberryJam]

And, you’re wondering what? Why are the children punished?

Yeah, I can understand that maybe you’re interpreting that to mean that there is some collective, family guilt for sin, for reasons known only to God.

Look at it this way. My grandfather was an alcoholic and it has affected everyone in the family, from his generation down to a couple generations after me. He made the family so dysfunctional, in ways that couldn’t be repaired and the problems still linger from that dysfunctional situation.

So, maybe it is referring to the enormous consequences of sin, that ripple out to other people, certainly to everyone living around the sinner. Perhaps this example shows you that this is possible. When it is possible, then maybe you can see the effects of other sins, like abortion, LYING, infidelity, divorce, public crimes, etc. rippling out in people who are damaged by it.

That’s the way the matter has stuck in my head, THE ENORMOUS CONSEQUENCES OF SIN. It explains so many things we see around us, so many problems that people have.

And, while we’re at it, talking about sin of ‘others,’ look how powerful forgiveness is in those situations, virtually the only thing that can repair all that damage.

Huh?

Interesting interpretations of the passages I posted.

 

[Hope3]

I’ve read Deut 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, Ezek 18:20, 33:20, Jer 31:29-30 and other passages that cause me to wonder about punishment of the children of sinners.

None of these passages are relevant when speaking of Adam’s sin. Adam’s sin caused physical death and spiritual alienation from God (loss of eternal life with God in heaven) and his sin could only be atoned for by God’s own Son, Jesus. Adam’s sin caused irreparable damage and so all of his descendants were born with his sin on their souls and all of his descendants have to die (except for those who are still on earth at the time of Jesus’ Second Coming). This is why it is called Original Sin. It is the first sin (eating of the forbidden fruit) committed by mankind and it affects all mankind.

After Jesus’ sacrifice, all men and women still have to die. Jesus’ sacrifice makes it possible for them to enter into eternal life after death, but it does not guarantee that they will. Whether they enter into eternal life after death depends on their own personal actions. If they choose to believe and become baptized which makes them right(eous) with God and then they also continue in righteousness by obeying God’s commandments and producing good fruit (good works) until death, then they will be approved to inherit eternal life. If they do not do all of these things, then they will not inherit eternal life after they die.

These passages you listed above are speaking of personal sins committed by individuals, not original sin which they had no part of except to inherit it.

 

[NotWorthy]

None of these passages are relevant when speaking of Adam’s sin. Adam’s sin caused physical death and spiritual alienation from God (loss of eternal life with God in heaven) and his sin could only be atoned for by God’s own Son, Jesus. Adam’s sin caused irreparable damage and so all of his descendants were born with his sin on their souls and all of his descendants have to die (except for those who are still on earth at the time of Jesus’ Second Coming). This is why it is called Original Sin. It is the first sin (eating of the forbidden fruit) committed by mankind and it affects all mankind.

After Jesus’ sacrifice, all men and women still have to die. Jesus’ sacrifice makes it possible for them to enter into eternal life after death, but it does not guarantee that they will. Whether they enter into eternal life after death depends on their own personal actions. If they choose to believe and become baptized which makes them right(eous) with God and then they also continue in righteousness by obeying God’s commandments and producing good fruit (good works) until death, then they will be approved to inherit eternal life. If they do not do all of these things, then they will not inherit eternal life after they die.

These passages you listed above are speaking of personal sins committed by individuals, not original sin which they had no part of except to inherit it.

Very good point.

I once heard a rather simple explanation that works for simple folks like me.

Adam and Eve were created with Eternal Life (also called Sacramental Grace). In eating of the fruit, they lost this Eternal Life. Now, they can’t pass on to their children that which they don’t have. That’s why all generations following are born without this Eternal Life.

When we are baptized, we die to this life and are born to a new life (“Born from above”) and we become Children of God. Since God IS ETERNAL LIFE, we inherit this in Baptism.

 

[Hope3]

Very good point.

Thank you.

I once heard a rather simple explanation that works for simple folks like me.

Adam and Eve were created with Eternal Life (also called Sacramental Grace). In eating of the fruit, they lost this Eternal Life. Now, they can’t pass on to their children that which they don’t have. That’s why all generations following are born without this Eternal Life.

When we are baptized, we die to this life and are born to a new life (“Born from above”) and we become Children of God. Since God IS ETERNAL LIFE, we inherit this in Baptism.

Beautifully stated. Simple explanations are desirable for most people including me!

 

[StrawberryJam]

Whatever works.