The False Eden of Gambling

[tsering]

In 1998, several Bishops and the Archbishop of Alberta issued this statement on gambling:

The False Eden of Gambling

Also, the Bishops have given “guidelines that forbid the participation of parishes and institutions of their dioceses in gambling practices that hurt others.”

caedm.ca/gambling-faqs

Please read through these carefully and tell me, what your opinions are on these statements and the implications they have toward gambling in your life.

It seems like this phenomena is not only found in Alberta, but also elsewhere with Catholic leaders fighting against certain forms of gambling in their Dioceses:

Cardinal William H. O’Connell - Boston
Catholic bishops in Slovakia
Catholic Conference of Ohio
Bishop Jose Lazo in the Philippines
Philippines again
Archbishop Jose Guadalupe Martin Rabago of Leon, Mexico
Etc, etc.

Peace

 

[baltobetsy]

I’m guessing you’ve been really hurt by someone with a gambling problem. Did you want to talk about it?

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Winning is the toughest part about gambling, it gives you a false hope.

I have an uncle who won about a years wages the first time he went to a casino, he was in his early 20’s at the time. He was already fairly wealthy, he ran a haulage company, had a huge house and a good lifestyle.

He has gambled ever since that event, he is now 87 and has lost everything, today he is living on social security, he still hopes to find a system to win millions. In truth he has probably lost a million or two.

He will not listen to anyone, he knows he has been a fool, but still continues, such a waste of a life, he lost his family too.

 

[tsering]

I’m guessing you’ve been really hurt by someone with a gambling problem. Did you want to talk about it?

No, actually I never have. What did you think about the statement from the Bishops of Alberta in the OP?

Peace.

 

[fred_conty]

My own view is that it is the right one not the easy one. Financially it will pinch but spiritually it glows in the dark.

In the early church there was a dispute whether any Christian should eat meat that was used in the worship of false gods and sold openly in the market place. Some said it was dirty and not fit for Christians. But it was finally decided that is was just fine and fit to be eaten since it did nothing bad to the meat since everything God made was good in itself.
However there was one exception to this. Paul said that if it seemed bad in the eyes of your brethern and displeased them, then it should not be eaten for their sakes. I believe the same for gambling even a little if this is going to offend and lead someone in the wrong way. It is about charity since Jesus identifies Himself in our neighbor.

From this document, the horn is tooting the middle road and blasting excesses.
I’m sure all of us have heard horror stories on gambling and the nightmare pain it has caused families. The document points out that we cannot be a part of this and look at ourselves in a spiritual mirror…at whatever cost its still cheap.​

“…love everyone, especially the brethern.” Paul, murderer and convert.

 

[baltobetsy]

No, actually I never have. What did you think about the statement from the Bishops of Alberta in the OP?

Peace.

It seems to be a document full of good common sense. It just appeared to me that your recent flurry of posts on the subject of gambling might indicate that there was something underneath it all. Sorry to divert the conversation wrongly.

 

[otjm]

It might help if, for starters, we actually defined what "gambling " is.

For example, if one thoroughly understands the odds in any given poker hand, and has the self-discipline to only play the winning hands, is one “gambling”? I would say not.

If one goes to the roulette table and plays, is one gambling? Usually, people don’t know the odds (the house has something a bit over 5% - which means if you play long enough, you are guaranteed to lose your money).

I would say that in the second issue, one is gambling; and if one either does not know the odeds of any given hand, or does not exercise the discipline to onnly play the winning hands, then one is gambling.

Is that gambling considered bad by the Church? No; not if one is simply playing for fund and not risking anything more than entertainment money.

 

[tsering]

It seems to be a document full of good common sense. It just appeared to me that your recent flurry of posts on the subject of gambling might indicate that there was something underneath it all. Sorry to divert the conversation wrongly.

The recent flurry of posts is me trying to get my bearings straight on what Catholics officially and privately teach, practice, and think about gambling. I’m trying to make the Catholic faith mine own, being a candidate. Maybe weed out some misconceptions I’ve been taught about gambling from the evangelical protestant view, and build a solid conviction concerning gambling as a Catholic. I have to say, the statement by these Bishops and their policies about gambling are riveting, but do not seem to be common in other Dioceses - especially across the USA. Since I completely agree with their views, I was wondering what other Catholics think.

Some conclusions I’ve come to:

1. 
   *]Gambling is licit.
   *]Gambling can easily be abused and become morally unacceptable.
   *]Scandal is easily involved with gambling operations (i.e. Casinos)
   *]By naturally reading the CCC 2413, I find that there are different views from Catholics as to what it means by providing for the needs of “others.”
   *]I find that there is no universal interpretation as what constitutes “enslavement.”
   
   As for the term “others”, I naturally see it as my family, my Church (CCC 2043), and the poor (CCC 2443-9). Others seem to disagree or haven’t given me a clear answer. So that’s one reason I like the statement, because the Bishops make bold propositions like, “An intrinsic part of the Christian tradition regards the monies available for gambling as the monies of the poor.” They draw everything together. I think the more I look at how our pastors are interpreting the CCC, the more I’m glad to join the RCC.
   
   Peace.

 

[Bookcat]

Like all things…

The virtues of Charity, Justice, Temperance and prudence…

need to be in play if you go “play”

 

[otjm]

The recent flurry of posts is me trying to get my bearings straight on what Catholics officially and privately teach, practice, and think about gambling. I’m trying to make the Catholic faith mine own, being a candidate. Maybe weed out some misconceptions I’ve been taught about gambling from the evangelical protestant view, and build a solid conviction concerning gambling as a Catholic. I have to say, the statement by these Bishops and their policies about gambling are riveting, but do not seem to be common in other Dioceses - especially across the USA. Since I completely agree with their views, I was wondering what other Catholics think.

Some conclusions I’ve come to:

1. 
   *]Gambling is licit.
   *]Gambling can easily be abused and become morally unacceptable.
   *]Scandal is easily involved with gambling operations (i.e. Casinos)
   *]By naturally reading the CCC 2413, I find that there are different views from Catholics as to what it means by providing for the needs of “others.”
   *]I find that there is no universal interpretation as what constitutes “enslavement.”
   
   As for the term “others”, I naturally see it as my family, my Church (CCC 2043), and the poor (CCC 2443-9). Others seem to disagree or haven’t given me a clear answer. So that’s one reason I like the statement, because the Bishops make bold propositions like, “An intrinsic part of the Christian tradition regards the monies available for gambling as the monies of the poor.” They draw everything together. I think the more I look at how our pastors are interpreting the CCC, the more I’m glad to join the RCC.
   
   Peace.

1. 
   You are on the right track.
   
   Bishops need to make bold statements; so does the Gospel. And we need to constantly reform our lives - turn around (metanoia, in Greek).
   
   And I guess, if I wanted to be a bit snarky about the bishops’ bold statement, it would be to ask them if they ever went out to dinner at a fancy restaurant; if they ever played golf (and heavens - were there any side bets?); ever enjoyed an expensive bottle of wine, ever drove in anything more than a 5 year old Ford Escort…
   
   There are few acknowledged saints; hopefully a lot more that are not acknowledged. And some of those saints lived radically poor lives; they certainly are both a witness to Christ’s commands and to a model we need to emulate. But the Church does not say, and neither does the Gospel, that literal poverty - giving away all you have except the absolute minimum needed for survival - is an absolutely necessary element of salvation. they both clearly say that riches (and I mean more than just money) can become our idol which we worship rather than God.

 

[tsering]

You are on the right track.

Bishops need to make bold statements; so does the Gospel. And we need to constantly reform our lives - turn around (metanoia, in Greek).

And I guess, if I wanted to be a bit snarky about the bishops’ bold statement, it would be to ask them if they ever went out to dinner at a fancy restaurant; if they ever played golf (and heavens - were there any side bets?); ever enjoyed an expensive bottle of wine, ever drove in anything more than a 5 year old Ford Escort…

There are few acknowledged saints; hopefully a lot more that are not acknowledged. And some of those saints lived radically poor lives; they certainly are both a witness to Christ’s commands and to a model we need to emulate. But the Church does not say, and neither does the Gospel, that literal poverty - giving away all you have except the absolute minimum needed for survival - is an absolutely necessary element of salvation. they both clearly say that riches (and I mean more than just money) can become our idol which we worship rather than God.

Thanks. I think I agree with you on this point. I don’t think the Bishops are asking everyone to give up everything and live in literal poverty, or for that matter to forgo all forms of entertainment. I think they are presenting it as a challenge in our lives as Christians, to consider the needs of the poor over the entertainment of ourselves. That’s why they’re still allowing bingo in their parishes, because these games are sending 100% of their money to help the Church and the poor, but they are stopping funding from casinos, because they see scandal.

Hypothetical situation: My family has a lot of needs. My parish has a lot of needs. My parish community has a lot of needs. My parish community has contact with a lot of people in our city who are poor and have a lot of needs. Let’s say those members of my parish and I decide it’s best this season to all pitch in and make sure the needs of everyone is met, especially the poor. We fast some money and time to fix up our church building (which is in disrepair), fill up our rice bowls, and provide for some urgent needs of poor people within our community. Everyone pitches in and everyone works hard. When the job is done (at least our short-term goals) we decide to have a big party - for everyone! Now that’s entertainment well worth it!

My neighbors might think me a tad bit irresponsible if they caught me going on vacation, when my lawn was overgrown (broken lawnmower), my trash was piling up, my paint was pealing, leaky facets, etc. I think people might view us a little irresponsible if we spend more money on mere entertainment, than we are willing to put in the collection baskets on Sundays while our church ceiling is crumbling on our heads. It says something about our priorities.

I was floored by this passage today from the Office of Readings (Job 31:13-23):

“If I have denied anything to the poor,
or allowed the eyes of the widow to languish
While I ate my portion alone,
with no share in it for the fatherless,
Though like a father God has reared me from my youth,
guiding me even from my mother’s womb–
If I have seen a wanderer without clothing,
or a poor man without covering,
Whose limbs have not blessed me
when warmed with the fleece of my sheep;
If I have raised my hand against the innocent
because I saw that I had supporters at the gate–
Then may my arm fall from the shoulder,
my forearm be broken at the elbow!
For the dread of God will be upon me,
and his majesty will overpower me.”

St. Francis of Assisi pray for us.

Peace.