The False Unity

[GoldenArrow]

I actually would read Mark Mallett’s religious commentary if he left the content of his interior locutions and visions out of it. He would acquire greater credibility if he were to proclaim the gospel outside the bounds of his mystical experiences.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

I actually would read Mark Mallett’s religious commentary if he left the content of his interior locutions and visions out of it. He would acquire greater credibility if he were to proclaim the gospel outside the bounds of his mystical experiences.

Golden Arrow:

The problem with a lot of Charismatics/Pentacostals is that they validate their spirituality and religious commentary with their interior locutions, visions and mystical experiences, so they can’t separate them. This is contra to how most of us express ourselves - We support our commentary with logic, reason, Scripture, the Early Church Fathers, And so forth - And rarely do we refer to our Mystical Experiences.

As Mark Mallett is validating his religious commentary by his mystical experiences and visions, then the source of these can be validated:

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matt 7:16-20 NIV

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:22-23 NIV

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
1John 1:1-3

We can look at the effects of the experiences on the person’s life and on those who go to his concerts and read his blog. We can see if they go to Mass and Confession, if they read the Bible and pray more by themselves and with their fellow Catholics and if they lead better and more Godly lives.

The fact that he can’t separate his mystical experiences from his commentary is not proof the commentary is wrong. That’s just something else for you to either over look or to use in “discerning the spirits”.

I’m sure you’ve had a couple of consolations that you don’t talk about here, that you don’t use to justify a position you’ve held or something you’'ve said.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Joysong]

Traditional Ang:

As Mark Mallett is validating his religious commentary by his mystical experiences and visions, then the source of these can be validated:

I read the article and did not find any evidence at all in his words that he was relying upon a mystical experience in order to write his commentary. It seems likely you read it in one of the links on the side.

The OP was simply sharing a thought that impressed him as he read the article about unity, which is perfectly lawful to do on this forum. I am puzzled why anyone would object to his right to share something that he thought might interest others also.

We typically celebrate January 1st with reflections on peace and unity … it is good that all of us meditate on how we can be peacemakers and unifiers.

How does casting aspersions on the author of the article’s spirituality reflect a charitable spirit in the one critiquing?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Joysong,
for me the issue isn’t that Mallet is sharing his personal reflection on a political issue, but rather, he’s stating that his opinion is the result of direct revelation from God.

Another poster who spoke with Mallet asked how he knew what he heard was from God? Mallet response that God spoke to him in a loud booming voice.

As a Caremelite, I have a problem with this statement, because it has been taught to us that the voice of God is silent and communicated to us at the depth of our being. It’s not the equivalent of the God speaking to Moses in the Cecil B. Demille movie the Ten Commandments.

Jim OCDS

 

[Joysong]

Hello Jim,

I must be overlooking something, for I did not see what you are talking about within the OP’s link to the article: “Another poster who spoke with Mallet asked how he knew what he heard was from God? Mallet response that God spoke to him in a loud booming voice.” Maybe it was in one of the links, not the article itself?

The spirituality of the author is irrelevant to the few thoughts that Ace wanted to share. If the message is not delivered by one whom you or another considers “saintly,” is it not therefore a valid message? I noticed at mass today in the first eucharistic prayer, that we always pray: “Watch over it [the church] Lord, and guide it; grant it peace and unity throughout the world …”

Maybe Ace, like me, did not preliminarily hunt down all the links but casually posted a thought that inspired him. What is all of this argument over? Unity is very much in the forefront at this time of year.

We cross the line into spiritual danger when we assume the author is sinful because he is imprudent is disclosing his revelations. Being a carmelite also, Jim, I know that some who receive mystical experiences rather early in their spiritual development are not sensitive enough yet in spirit to understand that wisdom would keep them quiet.

There’s an old saying, “Do not look for the wisdom of age in youth” --and-- “Be patient, for God is not finished with me yet.”

 

[GoldenArrow]

Originally posted by Traditional Ang: As Mark Mallett is validating his religious commentary by his mystical experiences and visions, then the source of these can be validated:

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matt 7:16-20 NIV

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:22-23 NIV

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
1John 1:1-3

Mark conveyed to me his support for Medjugorje. I don’t consider Medjugorje to be from a Heavenly source, and so if a mystic tells me that he or she supports it, then that mystic’s source of “inspiration” is called into question.

Have you read some of his prophecies Traditional Ang? Go through them sometime, because — they’re strange!

Yes, I’ve had mystical experiences.* Maybe* early on, I couldn’t separate my mysticism from my apologetics. (I had mystical experiences that started 6 months after my first communion). I was given this totally unmerited and undeserved gift very, very early in my spiritual life.

Within a year of having mystical experiences, I learned how to separate these experiences from my Apologetics work. I can’t explain HOW I’m able to do this. I just can. It’s called practicing Catholicism. Catholics are like wine. We get better with age. With practice, prudence, and discretion, I’ve learned how to tease mysticism from theological meditations. I’ve learned that is is BEST to keep the contents of one’s mysticism to oneself.

In my opinion, Mark should be able to separate his mysticism from his meditations — that is — unless he’s a newbie to the faith, which I don’t think he is, given our conversation.

If one has mystical experiences, one knows how to separate them from meditations upon theological or scriptural matters. There is a very distinct difference between a meditation and various mystical states. **Maybe the Carmelite can explain this better? **

I know not to cross the line.

I am not in favor of Mark Mallett because he is a danger to himself and others. He lacks discretion and prudence. Instead of pondering his mystical experiences in his heart for a long period of time, he immediately posts them on the Internet for all to ponder!

Unapproved private revelations have killed people in the past. That’s why I oppose people such as Mark Mallett.

When I conveyed to him a story I’d come across on the internet where a Catholic died as a result of FAITH in unapproved private revelation from a Catholic mystic, Mark did not show compassion for the person who died. Heres what was said:

Golden Arrow to Mark: “Did you know that when hurricane Katrina hit, an acquaintance of mine that I’d met on a fringe Catholic message board, decided not to leave New Orleans because she believed, because of the same modern-day prophets that her Guardian Angel would come and miraculously rescue she and her brother from harm’s way and take them to a Catholic Refuge? It turns out that her brother died during Hurricane Katrina. The angel promised by false modern-day prophets never came.”

Mark’s answer: “Some people forget the most useful gift God gave us is common sense. Sad, and silly.”

He showed no compassion whatsoever. Is this good fruit?

And here’s another interesting Q and A:

GoldenArrow to Mark: “Why wasn’t the Tsunami that killed 250,000 people in a single day one of the Ten Secrets of Medjugorje? What about the Twin Towers attack on September 11th? What about the Genocide in Yugoslavia? What about the earthquake in Pakistan that killed 80,000 people? These are questions in my mind.”

Mark’s answer: “You’ll have to ask a seer.”

NOTE: DO NOT START ARGUING WITH ME ABOUT MEDJUGORJE. I WILL NOT DEBATE THIS, PER FORUM RULES.

 

[Ace86]

Ok well thanks so much for the answers about the unity aspect. I did not originally intend for this thread to become a “Mallet” bashing thread, but I find people’s thoughts and views on what he has to say very interesting. If he’s been chosen by God to deliver some messages, then he should just deliver them. But shouldn’t he have some type of disclaimer stating that he’s merely posting his mystical experiences interspersed with various things like parts from the Bible and speeches, etc. John Paul and Benedict have said.

 

[Joysong]

Ace,

There are a lot of pseudo mystics mingled with true mystics. Mystical experience does not give anyone who reads their words a basis to put their faith in what they say, unless it agrees with church teachings. Didn’t the scriptures warn us not to accept a new gospel that is other than what was handed down to us? We should examine the words, not the messenger. That is what I thought you were doing … sharing a message which seemed ok to me.

I never heard of this author until now, so no wonder I am not understanding where people are coming from.

What was strange to me was that initially you were called on the spot for sharing his words [preaching], and I could find no rationale for it, nor could I see anything in the article that was heretical.

We are not here to discuss this person’s real or imagined sinfulness.

 

[GoldenArrow]

Originally posted by Joysong: I never heard of this author until now, so no wonder I am not understanding where people are coming from.

He’s a new mystic being promoted by Spirit Daily and Michael H. Brown.

Originally posted by Joysong: We should examine the words, not the messenger.

I agree and disagree. We should examine BOTH the words and the messenger. The words should be holy, and the vessel should also be holy. The messenger should be a model of exemplary holiness.

Personally, I’m alarmed at some of his prophecies. Before defending him, I urge you to go read some of them. You may just change your mind.

Originally posted by Ace86: But shouldn’t he have some type of disclaimer stating that he’s merely posting his mystical experiences interspersed with various things like parts from the Bible and speeches

Yes. He should post a disclaimer.

I think Mark Mallett means well. I don’t think him an evil person. He genuinely believes God is speaking to him. He’s trying to do good … but he’s going about it in the wrong way.

God Bless!

 

[GoldenArrow]

Just to humor the OP, I’ll go read Mark’s latest blog, linked at the top. Then, I’ll give my opinion on it.

Be back later!

God Bless!

 

[Joysong]

Personally, I’m alarmed at some of his prophecies. Before defending him, I urge you to go read some of them. You may just change your mind.

Dear Arrow,

I simply read the OP’s article, and accepted it in good faith as something he felt was spiritually of interest to some of us. He made no effort to promote the message as a prophet of doom or any such thing.

To pry further into the character of the article’s author is not something God permits me to do, for it is none of my business to pass judgment on him; he personally is not on trial here.

If I defend anything, it is the right of the OP to have posted the article, for I still see nothing harmful in it. Do you feel as though you are doing a service to the forum in shielding the lambs from the wolf? There were no prophecies contained in the message, nor even a hint of mysticism.

Let’s discuss the concept of unity and peace as the OP originally intended when he began the thread, shall we? The words are really beautiful, for they are scripture.

TRUE UNITY

Christ prayed that we would all be one:

…by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind… (Phil 2:5)

 

[Ace86]

Just to humor the OP, I’ll go read Mark’s latest blog, linked at the top. Then, I’ll give my opinion on it.

Be back later!

God Bless!

Ok that’s cool. What we could do (unbeknownst to Mr. Mallet) is read what he has to say and share our thoughts on it on CAF. He blogs like everyday I think. What do you say? Is that a worthy idea? (One of us could also start a new thread if needed).

 

[Traditional_Ang]

I read the article and did not find any evidence at all in his words that he was relying upon a mystical experience in order to write his commentary. It seems likely you read it in one of the links on the side.

The OP was simply sharing a thought that impressed him as he read the article about unity, which is perfectly lawful to do on this forum. I am puzzled why anyone would object to his right to share something that he thought might interest others also.

We typically celebrate January 1st with reflections on peace and unity … it is good that all of us meditate on how we can be peacemakers and unifiers.

How does casting aspersions on the author of the article’s spirituality reflect a charitable spirit in the one critiquing?

Joysong:

First, My posts, esp. the one you responded to, have had absolutely nothing to do with the O.P and his post. They were an answer to the poster who claimed that she felt she couldn’t bring herself to read the blogger he linked.

The poster I was answering, Golden Arrow, in her post #21 said:

I actually would read Mark Mallett’s religious commentary if he left the content of his interior locutions and visions out of it. He would acquire greater credibility if he were to proclaim the gospel outside the bounds of his mystical experiences.

As I said in my post: “The problem with a lot of Charismatics/Pentacostals is that they validate their spirituality and religious commentary with their interior locutions, visions and mystical experiences, so they can’t separate them. This is contra to how most of us express ourselves - We support our commentary with logic, reason, Scripture, the Early Church Fathers, And so forth - And rarely do we refer to our Mystical Experiences.”

I haven’t read that in his blog, but I’ve seen that in many Pentacostal churches and in some Charismatic circles.

Either way, The Holy Scriptures give us some fairly simple ways to discern whether what he’s doing is from God or from Man - To boil these down:

Do his “followers” go to Sunday and Daily Mass and to CONFESSION More often? Pray the Rosary more often? Spend more time praying in front of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament? Tithe more and give more to charity? Do more good works and works of mercy? And, Do they do these cheerfully and with joy?

Or, Do we see the exact opposite?

Again, these questions do not apply to the O.P. but to the writings and musings of Mr. Mallett.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Joysong]

Traditional Ang:

The problem with a lot of Charismatics/Pentacostals is that they validate their spirituality and religious commentary with their interior locutions, visions and mystical experiences, so they can’t separate them. This is contra to how most of us express ourselves.

I haven’t read that in his blog, but I’ve seen that in many Pentacostal churches and in some Charismatic circles.

Exactly my point … nobody has read that in his blog, nor was it in the article posted by the OP. So why concern oneself regarding the spiritual holiness [or lack thereof] either with charismatics/pentecostals or Mark Mallet? Does anyone here remember the 8th commandment?

Either way, The Holy Scriptures give us some fairly simple ways to discern whether what he’s doing is from God or from Man - To boil these down: [snip]

Or, Do we see the exact opposite?

I certainly am not looking to discern whether Mark’s followers are doing anything whatsoever. That is really stretching, my man …

There are holy saints in the church who speak truths to man, but if man does not listen, does that invalidate the messenger? Certainly not. Otherwise the Lord Himself would be included, for many of his followers walked away.

As I asked earlier, could we return to topic?

 

[Catherine_Grant]

I believe this thread has meandered off topic far enough. With my apologies to Ace, I request that he start that new thread. It will be moderated closely and those who refuse to follow my direction to stay on topic have will adverse consequences for their posting privileges.

I remind the posters of Discussion Forums Rule 1:

Messages posted to threads should be on-topic. If you wish to discuss another topic, start a new thread.

I also remind the posters of Content Rule 4:

Do not post others’ e-mail addresses, private messages, or private e-mail sent by them unless they give you permission to do so.

I thank all those who participated charitably and encourage those who would like to discuss Mark Mallet’s publicly posted writings to do so in a new thread and those who wish to discuss the authority of preachers to do so in the Evangelization thread started by Ace.

This thread is now closed.