The Fewness of Those Catholics Saved

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By themselves alone definitely not. Through Jesus Christs presence in the world, may be.
To me that is very fuzzy and ambiguous. I think it’s pretty simple and clear. Christ gave us the Church so that we could get to heaven. The Church has told us what we need to do to get to heaven. Go to Confession, go to Mass, do your best to live a holy life.
The answer is theological opinion. My opinion is that His mercy is radiant, and our mercy (the philanthropic act) could be enough basis to capture this mercy, which in turn takes one to heaven.
Are you saying that my answer is an opinion? No. It is a fact. 🙂 Follow the Commandments and the precepts of the Church, get to Confession when you mess up, and if you do those things, you will get to heaven.
The judgment belongs to Jesus Christ, and he said in this topic that what is not possible for men is possible for God.
If we cooperate with Him please God, yes. 🙂
 
I think people who put their personal opinions or deductions above the consensus of the saints have… fundamental flaws and problems.

Pride can be a part of it. Ignorance. A complete lack of awareness or thorough thought about just what one is doing, I think is typical.

It is the opposite of a logical, good and humble method. On the other hand if you seek to, especially in times of confusion, but in all times, learn about any spiritual subject, there is no better way to find the knowledge of God than by going to the saints.

There is precious treasure beyond words there.

I will take the words of the saints over someone’s deductive logical analysis any day, in any way. I’ve seen those houses of cards fall apart again and again.

When I read, ‘it is because they were frustrated’ and ‘The Saints need to remind themselves’ I shake my head. This is not how you learn about God’s will, this is making your will and views God’s will.

If you want to learn about God and what He truly does and does not do, you must open yourself to uncomfortable conclusions and humble yourself to the authorities on spiritual matters, not put forth your own, and rely on speculative deductions. As if in fact you were in a spiritual position to make such, without any foundation moreover.

I cannot recommend enough to find out the answer to any spiritual question whatsoever – to simply seek the consensus of the saints. If you want to go to Heaven, follow the saints. If you want to go to Hell, follow…
 
I think people who put their personal opinions or deductions above the consensus of the saints have… fundamental flaws and problems.

Pride can be a part of it. Ignorance. A complete lack of awareness or thorough thought about just what one is doing, I think is typical.

It is the opposite of a logical, good and humble method. On the other hand if you seek to, especially in times of confusion, but in all times, learn about any spiritual subject, there is no better way to find the knowledge of God than by going to the saints.

There is precious treasure beyond words there.

I will take the words of the saints over someone’s deductive logical analysis any day, in any way. I’ve seen those houses of cards fall apart again and again.

When I read, ‘it is because they were frustrated’ and ‘The Saints need to remind themselves’ I shake my head. This is not how you learn about God’s will, this is making your will and views God’s will.

If you want to learn about God and what He truly does and does not do, you must open yourself to uncomfortable conclusions and humble yourself to the authorities on spiritual matters, not put forth your own, and rely on speculative deductions. As if in fact you were in a spiritual position to make such, without any foundation moreover.

I cannot recommend enough to find out the answer to any spiritual question whatsoever – to simply seek the consensus of the saints. If you want to go to Heaven, follow the saints. If you want to go to Hell, follow…
You know sir that Saints do not have to be right about everything and all the time. Why can’t you believe in modern day saints who have the ability to see better because the Christian Church has discovered deeper truths about what these saints were talking about. It is good to look at the past but we have a present where people need to understand the truths of God better in line of the present suitation. Now not once did you ever mentioned about my words explaining about the Divine Mercy messages. Now do you think these words are mine. No they are not. Read the Diary sir and you will see that I have spoken words from the Diary. I do not speak my own. The words I have spoken come from Our Lord Jesus Christ who I believe speaks better than any Saint. If these Saints have read this Diary any of them they will have changed their minds about what they wrote in the past. Look it up I mean the Diary and you will be reading what every person and Saint will love. God is giving us hope so as to help us in our struggle. If you do not know about the Diary and the Divine Mercy message sir I recommend you do and after you have read it then see my words in that light.
 
Saint’s are by no means infallible, but it was our Blessed Lord Himself that said, “How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!” Matthew 7:14 (Douay-Rheims).

I think that one thing is certain: While it is true that we cannot presume upon God’s mercy, we can always cast ourselves upon it and cling to it. God wills the salvation of each and every person on earth, now and in the past and in the future. He gives His grace in the measure needed for each of our souls to be saved. Perhaps we should be like the sinful Publican and daily, hourly, constantly, call out for that mercy. That’s why I’m grateful for the Divine Mercy chaplet. It is only private revelation, but surely God is always merciful to the heart truly disposed to receive His Mercy.
 
Christ is our joy; He is our hope. But this isn’t some kind of feel good religion. Catholicism’s hard stuff. The cross is hard. No getting around that.
I’ve yet to encounter an easy religion. But this the more I see stuff like this the more I cannot help but wonder how you can get hope or joy from it.
 
Honestly the number of the saved does not change a person’s faith, hope, or love in God, because trustful surrender to Divine Providence accepts all things. 😃
 
I remember the words a priest that is about to be beatified said to my father once.’‘There are very few people in hell,only those who were really evil are there.Even the biggest sinner if in the end of his life,repent and ask for forgiveness he shall receive it.’'I’ve been going through some really dark days,thinking about all my sins and perverse thoughts,I had spent three days crying a lot,without sleeping nor eating straight.I even excommunicated myself from the mass that sunday.I went to a friar and confessed,and he told me that we all are sinners and there is no such a thing as a soul without hope of salvation.Presumption of God’s mercy is really bad,because is the using of our Lord infinite mercy as a ‘‘free-pass’’ to sin,however there is a thing worse than that and it is the despair of God mercy.Honestly,I think that we all should be extremely harsh in judging ourselves,grasp a better sense of sin and extremely forgiven on others.
 
Here, here!
Code:
The most judgemental, least charitable, and spiritually proud people I have ever met have been part of the Traditionalist movement. Not all, of course, just the verbal ones. 

    The sweetest, most humble  people I have known have been repentant sinners.  

 The people promoting this type of attitude are not out at the abortion clinics, the prisons, the streets,   They are too busy renovating their churches and strutting around, puffed up, like roosters, clucking, "Look what we did for God!"  I kid you not.

As Jesus said to the Pharisees, "Tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the Kingdom of God before you."
 
I have read the diary. Here are some excerpts.

'One day, I saw two roads. One was broad, covered with sand and flowers, full of joy, music and all sorts of pleasures. People walked along it, dancing and enjoying themselves. They reached the end** without realizing it.** And at the end of the road there was a horrible precipice; that is, the abyss of hell. The souls fell blindly into it; as they walked, so they fell.

**And their number was so great that it was impossible to count them.
**
And I saw the other road, or rather, a path, for it was narrow and strewn with thorns and rocks; and the people who walked along it had tears in their eyes, and all kinds of suffering befell them. Some fell down upon the rocks, but stood up immediately and went on. At the end of the road there was a magnificent garden filled with all sorts of happiness, and all these souls entered there. At the very first instant they forgot all their sufferings.’

‘Tell sinners that no one shall escape My Hand; if they run away from My Merciful Heart, they will fall into My Just Hands. Tell sinners that I am always waiting for them, that I listen intently to the beating of their heart… when will it beat for Me? Write, that I am speaking to them through their remorse of conscience, through their failures and sufferings, through thunderstorms, through the voice of the Church. And if they bring all My graces to naught, I begin to be angry with them, leaving them alone and giving them what they want.

‘If they will not adore My mercy, they will perish for all eternity. . .’

‘God does not give himself to a chattering soul which, like a drone in a beehive, buzzes around but gathers no honey. A talkative soul is empty inside. It lacks both the essential virtues and intimacy with God. A deeper interior life, one of gentle peace and of that silence where the Lord dwells, is quite out of the question. A soul that has never tasted the sweetness of inner silence is a restless spirit which disturbs the silence of others.** I have seen many souls in the depths of hell for not having kept their silence; they told me so themselves when I asked them what was the cause of their undoing.**’

‘They use My graces to offend Me. There are souls who despise My graces as well as all the proofs of My love. They do not wish to hear My call, but proceed into the abyss of hell.’

‘. . . And I started to enumerate the pains of my heart; that is, how greatly concerned I am for all mankind, that "they all do not know You, and those who do know You do not love You as You deserve to be loved. I also see how terribly sinners offend You; and then again, I see how severely the faithful, especially Your servants, are oppressed and persecuted. And then, too, I see many souls rushing headlong into the terrible abyss of hell.’

‘Then I saw a soul which was being separated from its body amid great torment. O Jesus, as I am about to write this, I tremble at the sight of the horrible things that bear witness against him… I saw the souls of little children and those of older ones, about nine years of age, emerging from some kind of a muddy abyss. The souls were foul and disgusting, resembling the most terrible monsters and decaying corpses.’

'Today, I was led by an angel to the chasms of hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is!

The kinds of tortures I saw: the first torture that constitutes hell is the loss of God; the second is perpetual remorse of conscience; the third is that one’s condition will never change; the fourth is the fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it – a terrible suffering, since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God’s anger; the fifth torture is continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and, despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own; the sixth torture is the constant company of Satan; the seventh torture is the horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.

These are the tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings. There are special tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses.

Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings, related to the manner in which it has sinned.

There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me.

Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin.

I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like. I, Sister Faustina, by the order of God, have visited the abysses of hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence. I cannot speak about it now; but I have received a command from God to leave it in writing. The devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God. What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: that most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell. When I came to, I could hardly recover from the fright. How terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God’s mercy upon them. O my Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend You by the least sin.’

The Diary of St. Faustina Kowalska
 
‘And the Lord said to me, My child, you please Me most by suffering. In your physical as well as your mental sufferings, My daughter, do not seek sympathy from creatures.’

‘Love must be reciprocal. If Jesus tasted the fullness of bitterness for me, then I, His bride, will accept all bitterness as proof of my love for Him.’

“Jesus, my Spouse, Treasure of my heart, You know that I know You alone and that I have no other love but You; but, Jesus, if I were about to become attached to anything that is not You, I beg and entreat You, Jesus, by the power of Your mercy, let instant death descend upon me, for I prefer to die a thousand times than to be unfaithful to You once in even the smallest thing.”

‘I heard this voice in my soul: I want her to be more obedient. I understood that our efforts, no matter how great, are not pleasing to God if they do not bear the seal of obedience; I am speaking about a religious soul.’

‘I listened to people pour out their grievances, and I saw that no heart was joyful, because no heart truly loved God; and this did not surprise me at all.’

'‘Do you see this moon and these stars? When I said yes, he spoke these words to me, These stars are the souls of faithful Christians, and the moon is the souls of religious. Do you see how great the difference is between the light of the moon and the light of the stars? Such is the difference in heaven between the soul of a religious and the soul of a faithful Christian. And he went on to say that, True greatness is in loving God and in humility.’

‘Now I understand well that what unites our soul most closely to God is self-denial; that is, joining our will to the will of God. This is what makes the soul truly free, contributes to profound recollection of the spirit, and makes all life’s burdens light, and death sweet.’

Excerpts from the Diary of St. Faustina
 
In any case… I have read many many many many quotations from the saints on this subject… From ancient times up unto the most recent. Unchanging.

The saved are few. The saved are few. Become one of the few, not the many. Become one of the few, not the many.

Over and over again this is said.

Why is this said?

It is because few people love God. Most people love themselves.
 
Faith is a supernatural virtue. Faith should not be touched by this, nor dependent in the slightest upon the numbers of the saved, or emotional reactions of difficulty. 😃

I don’t know you personally or what your personal troubles are with these things so I cannot really say anything more but that you should take care of yourself and pray for faith. If you pray for something every day you will have results.
 
It must always be someone else with the problem rather than yourself, eh?
 
I’ve yet to encounter an easy religion. But this the more I see stuff like this the more I cannot help but wonder how you can get hope or joy from it.
Well, I certainly don’t get any joy out of this thread–this and many other threads you’ll find here, that’s for sure.

The more I learn about Christ and the saints, the more joy I have. The Mass and the sacraments bring me joy. But what’s more important is, is it true? And the answer is, yes, it’s true. The saints are proof that the Catholic Faith is true. 🙂
 
Shin, I too felt despair reading the first link you posted ‘the fewness of those catholics saved’. I re-read the article and parts of it became more transparent with regards to the fact - that we know all are tempted by the devil and evil spirits tempt the saints more so than the rest of us and my own interpretation is that this tempting is inherent throughout the article. E.G. there is actually a paragraph that refers to this, see below:

“A famous preacher was invited to preach. While he was preparing his sermon, a horrible demon appeared to him and said, “Lay your books aside. If you want to give a sermon that will be useful to these princes and prelates, content yourself with telling them on our part, ‘We the princes of darkness thank you, princes, prelates, and pastors of souls, that due to your negligence, the greater number of the faithful are damned; also, we are saving a reward for you for this favour, when you shall be with us in Hell.’” Woe to you who command others! If so many are damned by your fault, what will happen to you?”

Why would a demon from hell wish to ‘alert’ us to the fact that we’re all doomed to hell - don’t you think they would be rubbing their hands with glee that we hadn’t a clue how dammed we all were and not bother telling us? As all demon’s are liars it would indicate to me that this is to project a feeling of despair onto followers so that they do not know how to proceed and start to mistrust the mercy of god.

Also, it states in the article that one saint died and appeared to a bishop in a dream stating out of 33,000 died that day only 2 went to heaven - even in the bible it states no dead man ever came back to tell the tale, and lazurus requested to go back to inform his brothers but was not allowed to - i hence find this tale difficult to agree with and in keeping with what I stated above that all religious men / women and saints are the most tempted by the devil hence who knows where that dream came from it could easily have been planted in the dream by a demon.
 
Not many want to hear of Hell, but I’d guess many there are screaming " why didn’t someone warn me ? "

Presumption of God’s mercy is a slippery topic.
 
Well, I certainly don’t get any joy out of this thread–this and many other threads you’ll find here, that’s for sure.

The more I learn about Christ and the saints, the more joy I have. The Mass and the sacraments bring me joy. But what’s more important is, is it true? And the answer is, yes, it’s true. The saints are proof that the Catholic Faith is true. 🙂
And the threat of Hell is HMC’s purpose. To save us from it. And I think that’s won-da-ful ! 😉
 
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