The Final Sign

[StrawberryJam]

I’m not worried about hell since I don’t believe in an eternal hell. (But I have no desire to debate this.)

I’m am worried about economic disaster and what that will do to society.

It’s nothing new though. Throughout history there have been economic disasters. Society gets through it and it happens again. I don’t mean to sound trite, I just wish we didn’t think we were so unique and special and that others who lived through this and much worse are forgotten about. If its from the angle of Jesus will come when it all collapses, I guess you will all be waiting a bunch longer than you already have.

 

[Jon_Hus]

Are you the only one allowed to classify other people’s beliefs without knowing what those beliefs are? That sounds like a scientologist to me.

For example, Jon Hus classified stash’s beliefs when he said:_______________

 

[ralphinal]

Stash,
I am interested in your approach. Do you put any stock in any other Marian apparition? Are there any other prophecies that you see value in?

 

[StashLazarus]

For example, Jon Hus classified stash’s beliefs when he said:_______________

Joh Hus said:
Has anyone ever suggested that you consider joining up with The Jehovah’s Witnesses? I think you would be a good fit for them.

I said:
You should think about becoming a scientologist. You seem to be in line with their thinking.

This seems a bit childish. Surely you’re not now going to get into an argument about semantics.

 

[StashLazarus]

Stash,
I am interested in your approach. Do you put any stock in any other Marian apparition? Are there any other prophecies that you see value in?

There are a number of prophecies that I find interesting. Mayan, Hopi, Merlin, but I don’t consider them authoritative; I just try to keep an open mind.

Marian apparitions are fairly common unexplained phenomena, and some are very credible. I don’t view Mary the same as Catholics, but even Catholics don’t all agree as some Catholics want to elevate Mary higher that others. I consider Mary one of the most if not the most righteous and holy person to ever walk the Earth (keeping in mind that her Son was in a class by Himself). It is not surprising or difficult for me to believe that God would send a message to humanity through Mary.

 

[ralphinal]

There are a number of prophecies that I find interesting. Mayan, Hopi, Merlin, but I don’t consider them authoritative; I just try to keep an open mind.

Marian apparitions are fairly common unexplained phenomena, and some are very credible. I don’t view Mary the same as Catholics, but even Catholics don’t all agree as some Catholics want to elevate Mary higher that others. I consider Mary one of the most if not the most righteous and holy person to ever walk the Earth (keeping in mind that her Son was in a class by Himself). It is not surprising or difficult for me to believe that God would send a message to humanity through Mary.

Ok. Interesting.

Now, what is it about end times that holds your attention?

 

[Jon_Hus]

This seems a bit childish.

An area in which you are quite knowledgeable? Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Concerning the second coming of Christ it is important that we keep an open mind. Many are convinced that the prophecies have been fulfilled or will be fulfilled in some particular way, but the first coming of Christ didn’t happen as expected. No one, not even the apostles, understood the prophecies and it is likewise probably true that everything we have been told about Armageddon and antichrist will turn out to be wrong. My views may also be wrong, but I am mindful of this. I don’t claim to know the future and this is only presented for your consideration.

Ninety-two years ago a message from God was given to three children in Fatima. Keeping in mind that a prophet is someone who has been given a message from God, these three children were prophets just as much as Ezekiel and Isaiah were prophets. Many have claimed to be prophets, but since ten of thousands of people witnessed the miracle of Fatima, this is the only occasion in thousands of years that we can say with a great deal of certainty that these were actual prophets of God. It has great significance that God sent us a prophetic message especially if you consider that the main theme of this message was coming judgment and war.

The message of Fatima is divided into three “secrets” with the first secret dealing mostly with World War I and the second secret dealing mostly with World War II. The second secret gave no details of World War II, but it did give a sign that occurred not long before the war began. The Fatima message also said that Russia would be converted and this would lead to a period of peace. When the Berlin wall came down there were some who said it was the end of history as there were no major conflicts among nations. This period of peace was said to occur in the “end” which perhaps means the end times.

The third and final secret of Fatima foretold the assassination of the Pope, and it is believed that this was fulfilled by the attempted assassination of John Paul. There are several reasons to believe that the attempt on John Paul’s life did not fulfill this prophecy. For one thing John Paul wasn’t killed, nor was any other people killed in the attack as indicated in the third secret. Since the prophecy talks of two catastrophic world wars, it is anticlimactic that the third and final event foretold in a message from God was the death of a Pope. Popes have died before, in fact the only Pope who hasn’t died is the one we have now. The message of Fatima is an extremely rare message from God it should be describing something of incredible significance. The third secret talks of religious people gathering at a mountain and this would seem to be mount Zion which is a type of end time sanctuary foretold in a number of prophecies. This suggests that the third secret is talking about the final turbulent years often called the “tribulation”. The second secret didn’t provide any information about Word War II, but it gave a sign to occur before the war started, and likewise the death of the Pope is likely given as a final sign to occur before the “tribulation” begins.

According to Saint Malachy there will only be one more Pope. The final Pope is called Peter the Roman, and there is great tribulation during his time. So the transition to tribulation occurs as we go from the current Pope to the final Pope. This also suggests that the “tribulation” will begin following the death of the current Pope.

If the Pope were killed, there is a good chance it would lead to Armageddon. Israel wants very much to strike Iran, but they face a large risk by doing so. Not only does Israel lack American support, if they attack Iran they will be vilified and blamed for the disruption of oil and the resulting economic catastrophe. If Islamic fanatics murder the Pope, it will give Israel more support for a strike against Iran, and it would shift some of the blame to the Jihadists. It would provide Israel with the best possible opportunity to strike Iran that they are going to get, and it is hard to believe that Israel would allow such an opportunity to go unnoticed.

This is not to say that Muslim fanatics are about to kill the Pope, or to say that the Israelis will kill the Pope to blame the jihadists. No doubt if the Pope were murdered that argument will start before he is properly buried. Hijacking the thread to engage in such a speculative argument really misses the point. It isn’t important who pulls the trigger, and this isn’t about who pulls the trigger, but what comes next.

None of this proves that these are true prophecies, or that this is the correct interpretation of prophecy. We don’t know the future. However, if the current Pope is killed it will clearly surpass the attempt on John Paul’s life as the fulfillment of Fatima. It will mean that the period call “Armageddon” is only weeks, or perhaps days, away.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to speculate on the end times. Nostradamus, Fatima, Mayans, this is a bunch of babble as far as I am concerned, and what good will it do you to worry about it?

Here is a good link to debunk the end times speculation of 2012:
news.discovery.com/space/ray-villard-doomsday-theories.html

People have been predicting the end of the world for almost as long as they have been around. Enjoy your life, love God and forget about it!

 

[StashLazarus]

An area in which you are quite knowledgeable? Correct me if I’m wrong.

Yes, that’s why I allowed you to start it. Very childish of me. Since I realize how childish I was I will not reply to you anymore. I know you are not childish and therefore you have a need to get the last word.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I don’t think it’s a good idea to speculate on the end times. Nostradamus, Fatima, Mayans, this is a bunch of babble as far as I am concerned, and what good will it do you to worry about it?

Here is a good link to debunk the end times speculation of 2012:
news.discovery.com/space/ray-villard-doomsday-theories.html

People have been predicting the end of the world for almost as long as they have been around. Enjoy your life, love God and forget about it!

 

[StashLazarus]

Ok. Interesting.

Now, what is it about end times that holds your attention?

The down side is Armageddon and “tribulation”, which means a lot of suffering for a short period of time.

The up side is the second coming of Christ.

I believe that our best hope and the best possible outcome is a benevolent God and a second coming of Christ who will change us into His “image”. We will love God and we will love each other, and all the kind hearted people whose bodies have decayed to dust will live against in His kingdom. All will be made right.

I also believe that many prophecies have been fulfilled and there is good reason to believe that we are living in the end times. Granted, the “end times” may last another 100 years as far as I know.

 

[crazzeto]

Well we don’t know when it is going to happen, remember only the Father knows. Basically, the when of the end times is a management question, I would add it’s my personal feeling that even the specifics of what will happen, even though I believe we have it all sitting right in front of us, is still something only God knows. The more I study revelation (doing a whole CSS course right now) the more I realize that while we know quite a bit about it in certain contexts, we seem to lack any firm guidence on how to interpet it fully.

Anyway, at least your grounded enough to realize that the tribluation isn’t going to just be a tribulation “of the unbelievers”. It’s going to be a tribulation for us all, equally. We will all, have to endure to the end. And it seems to me that, in some context, we’re all going to be involved with it, so don’t worry. We’ll all be there for final judgement (yeah ok, any one else find that a little daunting?)

 

[ralphinal]

The down side is Armageddon and “tribulation”, which means a lot of suffering for a short period of time.

The up side is the second coming of Christ.

I believe that our best hope and the best possible outcome is a benevolent God and a second coming of Christ who will change us into His “image”. We will love God and we will love each other, and all the kind hearted people whose bodies have decayed to dust will live against in His kingdom. All will be made right.

I also believe that many prophecies have been fulfilled and there is good reason to believe that we are living in the end times. Granted, the “end times” may last another 100 years as far as I know.

Well, don’t lose sight of the fact that St Paul thought the end was right around the corner, too.

The second we die, to us, the physical world is over and we are judged. That is the key. We need to live each moment like it is our last

 

[VitaminC]

Google “Fatima prophecies”

“It was announced on 13 May 2000, 83 years after the first apparition of the Lady to the children in the Cova da Iria, that the third secret would finally be released. The text was published on 26 June 2000:”

Hi –

Please read the book, The Devil’s Final Battle, by Fr. Paul Kramer. The content of this book is available online for free at this website. It can also be purchased used off of Amazon. For advanced reading on the matter, follow this book up with Catholic attorney Christopher Ferrara’s book, The Secret Still Hidden. The content of this book is also available for free online at website2. (Scroll to bottom right side of screen to find chapter links.)

The evidence is overwhelming that the full Third Secret of Fatima has not been published. What they published is a supplementary vision of Sr. Lucia’s. The document released by the Sodano-Ratzinger-Bertone trio in June of 2000 was four sheets of paper, and 62 lines long, and purportedly in Sr. Lucia’s handwriting.

Prior to 2000, we have multiple accounts that the Third Secret was written on a single sheet of paper and in the form of a letter. For example, Cardinal Ottaviani, in a 1967 press conference said that, “She wrote it on a sheet of paper.” Fr. Malachi Martin at least twice on U.S national radio said that he had read the text in February, 1960 and that it was written on “one sheet of paper.” Bishop Venancio, the person who delivered the envelope containing the Third Secret to the papal nuncio after Lucia wrote it down, was reported to have held the envelope up to a light, and noted that the Third Secret was written on a “small sheet of paper.” He even measured the margins and estimated the number of lines of text at about 25 lines. And then we have it from the Vatican’s Fatima archivist, Fr. Alonso, that Sr. Lucia herself said it was written on one sheet of paper. * La Verdad sobre el Secreto de Fatima*, Fr. Joaquin Alonso, p. 60.

And the evidence isn’t limited to an argument over how many sheets of paper it was written on. There is a mountain of evidence showing that the full Third Secret has not been published.

For example, in Pope JPII’s homily in Fatima on 13 May 2000, the day Sodano announced the Third Secret would be released, Pope JPII said the Message of Fatima was "alerting humanity to have nothing to do with the “dragon” whose “tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth.” This is a reference to Apocalypse 12:3-4, a section of the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse) involving the advent of Antichrist. This chapter and verse has been interpreted in Catholic commentaries to be referring to Catholic clergy coming under the control of Satan when the rise of antichrist is near. Just a couple years before this, Fr. Martin released his book, Windswept House, the content of which reflects this, and Fr. Martin obviously associates it with Fatima. And in one of his last interviews, Fr. Martin stated publicly on U.S. national radio that the Third Secret included a mention of a final pope coming under the control of evil.

Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite interviewed Sr. Lucia about the content of the Third Secret. She specifically pointed to Apocalypse chapters 8 - 13. And then we have Cardinal Ratzinger’s 1984 interview with Jesus Magazine, which he reviewed and approved before publication. Cardinal Ratzinger stated that the Third Secret involved the “end times” and “dangers threatening the faith and lives of Christians, and therefore the world.” And this was already three years after the failed assassination attempt, and he said nothing about that. And then in 2000 in his commentary, Cardinal Ratzinger explicitly stated that the Third Secret had nothing to do with the Apocalypse.

The fact of the matter is that the Bertone-Ratzinger-Sodano trio didn’t tell the full truth about the Third Secret and conspired to cover-up the existence of that one-page letter from Sr. Lucia. People even went so far as to forge letters in Sr. Lucia’s name and Cardinal Bertone even lied about what Pope JPII and Sr. Lucia said.

And it’s not just the Third Secret, either. It’s the Second Secret, too. It’s been claimed by Cardinal Bertone and some others that Sr. Lucia had always given her assurances that the last consecration had been successful. This is false. There is an interview in Sol de Fatima Magazine in 1985 where Sr. Lucia stated that the last consecration failed. She repeated this in 1987 during an interview with journalist Enrico Romero. And even her own cousin interviewed Sr. Lucia and had said the last consecration had failed. She also told cardinals years after the last consecration that it had failed. And there is proof of forged letters by Sr. Lucia.

And then we have evidence that the Vatican in 1989 (Cardinal Casaroli, according to Fr. Martin) actually ordered Sr. Lucia and others to begin saying the consecration had succeeded despite the fact that these people had been relaying that Sr. Lucia had said it failed.

 

[VitaminC]

The message of Fatima is divided into three “secrets” with the first secret dealing mostly with World War I and the second secret dealing mostly with World War II.

Not quite. The first secret was a vision of Hell.

The third and final secret of Fatima foretold the assassination of the Pope, and it is believed that this was fulfilled by the attempted assassination of John Paul.

No, actually it doesn’t foretell the failed assassination of the Pope. And there were actually two failed assassination attempts. The second one occurred a year after the first one while JPII was in Fatima. A priest lunged at him with a knife and drew blood. The Vatican originally tried to cover it up.

And the Third Secret is not about the failed assassination attempt on JPII. Bertone, Ratzinger, and Sodano lied and said it was. They thought they could get away with it because the failed assassination occurred on the anniversary of one of the apparitions and Pope JPII “associated it” with Fatima. It was to get him to listen and believe. It wasn’t the subject of the Third Secret written on one sheet of paper that Bertone claims does not even exist. See my prior posting for detailed information and books to read.

The message of Fatima is an extremely rare message from God it should be describing something of incredible significance.

It is about something of incredible significance – the Apocalypse. Sr. Lucia said so herself in a published interview with Frere Michel. And Fr. Martin said so, too. And so did Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984, and Cardinal Ciappi around 1995, to name a few examples.

If the Pope were killed, there is a good chance it would lead to Armageddon.

Not really. The battle of Armageddon doesn’t happen until phase II of the Apocalypse.

 

[kempo1]

Some believe Johns visions of the apocolypse had to do with the times he was living in and not for today. The gospels tell us what Christ says concerning end times. There are so many differing opinions one will get confused. One thing i have noticed is so many religions if not all do believe that we are in the end times now which is kind of unusual because most religions dont agree on a lot of things. I can say what is interresting to me is that never in the history of the world has every nation on earth had military troops of every kind in the middle east. It almost seems like things are setting up for something really big in the near future. Pretty scarry stuff when you think about it.