The first Muslim to quote the OT/NT directly?

[True_Faith50]

Yes, this has always been my issue in that the Qur’an clearly states that the Torah and the Gospel are valid. However Muslims claim they are corrupt, so they often pick and choose which passages in the Bible suit them best.

We recognize 3 different type of evidences in the Bible, We found 1 type of evidence where we recognize as a word of God. For example:

Deuteronomy 18:18
'I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

So now I’m asking anybody weather Jew or Christian who is this I? They says “God” and I can also see this is God talking. Is not Moses, Moses didn’t say I will raise them up, God speaking through Moses, On the very face of it we can see it is God talking, we recognize no disputes!

In the book of Isaiah we read…

Isaiah 46:9
For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me.

So who’s talking? “God” although we didn’t see God we didn’t hear him but the words that are uttered by Isaiah, he was like a mouth piece of God. This is God talking through him.
So now we can recognize quiet easily the word of God in the Bible.

Than there is second type of evidence in the bible which we recognize as the word of the prophet of God. Like jesus!

Mathew 5:27-28
“You have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

That is the word of the prophet of God. Than there is a 3rd type of evidence where we read…

Mathew 21:19
He was returning to the city, He became hungry. Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves.

These are the word of eye witness or a hear witness or a person writing from hear say. Than there is another type of evidence in the Bible which we can’t attribute to God, a prophet or even to a saint person and there are other type which no decent man can read out to his mother, sister or daughter!

Now in the house of Islam we also have something like this, we have the word of God, we have the word of the prophet, we have the word of historian and we also have our fairy tales but they are not in “One Book”.

The word of God is in the Quran and it is complete by itself, the word of the prophets is in hadiths, the word of historian we have our ibne e talmiya, imam ghazali and so on and on. Than we have our arabian nights which the arabs before Islam filthy dirty stories but that’s in a separate book.

The word of God is separate, The word of prophets is separate, The word of historians is separate.

Where is in your case every thing is in “One Book”!

That’s the difference. So now if you show me some lunacy there and tells me you accept this as the word of God? I say no. But you believe in the bible? I say look there are things that I have no hesitation in accepting.

The 10 Commandments. No hesitation in accepting as God’s word. Whatever matches with Quran that portion we don not mind to accept it as the word of God but that does not mean that the whole of the bible is the word of God.

 

[MartinJordan]

TF50, when are you going answer my question? Right now all you’ve written is clanging cymbals.

MJ

 

[lovedance4ever]

Which is?

The religion of islam didn’t go into this topic at a deeper level in order to avoid controversy (religion is for all people, not just deep thinkers). It’s enough in islam that we believe in Jesus Christ.
Very very few can legitimately follow him.

I do not associate divinity with Jesus personally but with the Cause of Causes who was manifesting in him. There’s a subtle difference here.

The main topic is the Crucifixion which muslims have the wrong view on. That’s because they do not understand the Quranic verse in connection. Just to understand that 1 verse, the entire context surrounding the prophecies, teachings, the condition of the jews before and after Jesus etc have to be understood.

Also you seem to think Jesus set the standard and therefore we have to specifically follow him. Ie if he says ‘no divorce’ then quite simply no one should divorce ever again.

The problem with that is, the law of Moses comes from God and therefore to reject the law of divorce is to reject God.

Once again, in order to maintain consistency i’d rather see another way out of this.
Personally I believe God knows best what is fair for us.

If Abraham already lived by Faith before there was a law of Moses then why did God later allow divorce? it would appear things were perfect but God took a backward step no? On the contrary. God knew the spiritual state of the people the law was intended for. What Jesus preached, I believe and accept…but how many can live by it? 99% of Christians cannot ‘follow’ Jesus because they do not posses the inner state of Unity.

ie ‘show him your other cheek’
do you mean to tell me i can slap most christians and they won’t respond? yet i find most Christians here believe the Crusades were justified and they believe in self-defence.

It’s that very attitude which ultimately caused divisions within Christianity. Eventually the law of Shariah came as a reminder.

*Surah 5
44 Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.

45	And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.

What Allah tells us is, forgiveness is superior but an eye for an eye is still ok. That’s because the message of the Quran is for all people, the normal and the superior.

The message of Jesus, could not be practiced by an average person. Ie very few can actually follow his teachings.

If you ever get a chance watch this documentary to understand the sacrifice that’s required to attain the inner experience of God-consciousness.

youtube.com/watch?v=Zk1rsVCF8N0

But it’s not about what is “easy to practice.” It’s about doing what is morally right, and in that sense, the teachings of Jesus make the most sense.

 

[MartinJordan]

ie ‘show him your other cheek’
do you mean to tell me i can slap most christians and they won’t respond? yet i find most Christians here believe the Crusades were justified and they believe in self-defence.

It’s that very attitude which ultimately caused divisions within Christianity. Eventually the law of Shariah came as a reminder.

You’re not getting the real meaning of turn the other cheek. Jesus did respond btw when the soldier slapped him. Christians are NOT going to sit and just take insults nor attacks.

However we are called to speak the Truth because it sets us free, even if we die for the FAITH, we are promised that we will live.

MJ

 

[True_Faith50]

But it’s not about what is “easy to practice.” It’s about doing what is morally right, and in that sense, the teachings of Jesus make the most sense.

But who is following Jesus? Nobody ever quotes Jesus! Philippians, Galatians, Corinthians, Thessalonians… who’s that? I said PAUL, PAUL, PAUL and PAUL. I’m asking who is your lord and master. They say Jesus! I’m asking what does Jesus say… Nobody knows! Nobody ever quotes Jesus. You are not following to Jesus, you are not listening to Jesus!

If you listen to Jesus you will be a Muslim but you are listening to PAUL, PAUL, PAUL & PAUL. He derailed Jesus teachings. You don’t have to do any good works today to be saved! you just believe in the blood… says Paul.

1 Corinthians 11:27
Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.

Jesus says! you must be better than the Jew and there was no heaven for your!

Mathew 5:20
For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I’m asking between the 2 who must you listen!

Jesus says! the disciple is not greater than the master (Jesus).

Mathew 10:24
A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master.

A million disciples tell you to go and eat pigs… you can now eat pigs because Peter have a dream.

Jesus says! thou not shall eat the flesh of the swine because it confirms the law of Moses.
To the letter, one jot the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet not even that amount is to go out of the law he says! and you have done the whole law. He says not even that much and who so ever do such a thing is called least in the kingdom of heaven you worthless rubbish! that’s what he says! but you don’t follow him.

Therefore, Michael H Hart wrote a book “Top 100” in America, New York. He gives the list of most influential men in history. From Adam to current time. He gives the list of 100 great names and than he puts them in order in signatory, who is number 1, 10 , 30, 70, 99 and he put No. 1 “Muhammed” The first person in that 100 list is “Muhammed”

“Jesus Christ” his lord and savior No. 3. Why does he put Jesus Christ No. 3? Because he says! The honour of Christianity is to be shade between “Paul” and “Jesus” in actual fact “Paul” is the real founder of Christianity not Jesus Christ! and you see in the writings of all the Evangelist. What are they teaching? Paul, Paul, Paul and Paul nobody tells you what Jesus say.

 

[GaryTaylor]

"Therefore, Michael H Hart wrote a book “Top 100” in America, New York. He gives the list of most influential men in history. From Adam to current time. He gives the list of 100 great names and than he puts them in order in signatory, who is number 1, 10 , 30, 70, 99 and he put No. 1 “Muhammed” The first person in that 100 list is “Muhammed” "

There is no person in recorded history more written about or portrayed in art or literature than Jesus Christ. Michael Harts expert opinion is suspect. By your same standard Robert Spencer would be an infallible authority on Mohammad and Islam.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_H._Hart

 

[AspiringSoul]

You’re not getting the real meaning of turn the other cheek. Jesus did respond btw when the soldier slapped him. Christians are NOT going to sit and just take insults nor attacks.

However we are called to speak the Truth because it sets us free, even if we die for the FAITH, we are promised that we will live.

MJ

You’re not getting the real meaning of turn the other cheek.

why don’t you tell me the real meaning?