The first religion/church?

[Contarini]

Hippolytus

He [Jesus] was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle [Mary] was exempt from defilement and corruption (*Orat. In Illud, Dominus pascit me, in Gallandi, Bibl. Patrum, II, 496 *ante A.D. 235]).

Sorry, Mickey, but that doesn’t cut it. “Exempt from defilement and corruption” is very vague and could mean a lot of different things. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary was free from original sin. Hippolytus could have been saying in general that Mary was holy and did not sin (which is not the same thing as the IC), or very likely he could have been talking about Mary’s virginity (“defilement” and “corruption” are the sort of terms I’d expect to see used of a loss of virginity). I don’t know this particular text (which I presume is a fragmentary one given the nature of the source being cited and the fact that most of Hippolytus’s writings are fragmentary).

I don’t dispute that this is a prefigurement of the idea of the Immaculate Conception–i.e., it’s a general concept that pointed Christians toward the idea of the IC once they had an Augustinian doctrine of original sin in place. But it’s no more an expression of the doctrine itself than John 1 is an expression of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Edwin

 

[Mickey]

Contarini:

I don’t dispute that this is a prefigurement of the idea of the Immaculate Conception–i.e., it’s a general concept that pointed Christians toward the idea of the IC once they had an Augustinian doctrine of original sin in place. But it’s no more an expression of the doctrine itself than John 1 is an expression of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Well Edwin, I don’t recall saying in my post that this was proof of the IC doctrine. You are correct, this is probably more of a prefigurement. I happen to obediently adhere to the IC doctrine based on gleanings from Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterial teachings. Here are a few others: Let me know if you’d like more–I’ve got hundreds of 'em!

Ephraim the Syrian

You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is neither blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these? (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 A. D. 361]).

Ambrose of Milan

Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin (Commentary on Psalm 118:22-30 A.D. 387]).

Gregory Nazianzen

He was conceived by the virgin, who had been first purified by the Spirit in soul and body; for, as it was fitting that childbearing should receive its share of honor, so it was necessary that virginity should receive even greater honor (Sermon 38 [d. **A.D. 390]).

 

[kleary]

beachieca:

Lazerlike42–

Thank you for those links.

"from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings. "
That quote is off of the page containing info.about Mary. When I asked the Priest this question, he said that when it was put in the Catholic Doctrine the Pope said that Mary could have been born sinless, but we didn’t know one way or the other. Now if a Catholic Priest is teaching that, why does it say here that she in fact was born sinless and in a state of sanctifying grace?

The fact that what he said about the Virgin Mary has one thinking… was that a Catholic priest you talked to? He is completely wrong. Also what he said concerning the Immaculate Conception is also completely wrong.

I would suggest that you report these things to your local Bishop and find another parish immediately.

Then again I seriously doubt any priest would say such things and maybe you are here to bait people with such nonsense??? Sorry if that is not true however I cannot believe a Catholic priest would say such about the Virgin Mary.

Ken

 

[Lazerlike42]

kleary:

The fact that what he said about the Virgin Mary has one thinking… was that a Catholic priest you talked to? He is completely wrong. Also what he said concerning the Immaculate Conception is also completely wrong.

I would suggest that you report these things to your local Bishop and find another parish immediately.

Then again I seriously doubt any priest would say such things and maybe you are here to bait people with such nonsense??? Sorry if that is not true however I cannot believe a Catholic priest would say such about the Virgin Mary.

Ken

You obviously haven’t met that many Catholic Priests! (or are extremely lucky) Some are pretty bad.

 

[kleary]

I guess I just belong to a great parish - www.materecclesiae.org and have been there for the past 10 years or so- and the priests there are, well extremely orthodox.

Ken