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Faith1960
Guest
I’m still struggling with the number of people saved after the Flood. Some say eight but there has never been a human bottleneck of fewer than 10,000 people on earth. Any new insights?
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Bonnie
Guest
One doesn’t have to believe the flood was world-wide - or even literal.
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MaryHelp777
Guest
Actually the Flood is historical.
On Mount Ararat frozen on its peak is the Ark.
Ask anyone in Armenia and they will tell you so. The Ark is on the Armenian flag.
Even during world war Ii the Russians and Germans took aircraft photos of Noah’s Ark.
It is recorded by historians as being there from as far back as 3,000 Bc I think being the first historian to write that it was there, many of the historians who wrote of its location were first hand eye witnesses of it.
Marco Polo whose life was written down about his travels as a merchant, even mentioned he saw it.
Read Steven Sora’s book on religious artifacts.
On Mount Ararat frozen on its peak is the Ark.
Ask anyone in Armenia and they will tell you so. The Ark is on the Armenian flag.
Even during world war Ii the Russians and Germans took aircraft photos of Noah’s Ark.
It is recorded by historians as being there from as far back as 3,000 Bc I think being the first historian to write that it was there, many of the historians who wrote of its location were first hand eye witnesses of it.
Marco Polo whose life was written down about his travels as a merchant, even mentioned he saw it.
Read Steven Sora’s book on religious artifacts.
M
MaryHelp777
Guest
Six Evidences for the Genesis Flood
Evidence #1—Fossils of sea creatures high above sea level due to the ocean waters having flooded over the continents.
We find fossils of sea creatures in rock layers that cover all the continents. For example, most of the rock layers in the walls of Grand Canyon (more than a mile above sea level) contain marine fossils. Fossilized shellfish are even found in the Himalayas.
Evidence #2—Rapid burial of plants and animals.
We find extensive fossil “graveyards” and exquisitely preserved fossils. For example, billions of nautiloid fossils are found in a layer within the Redwall Limestone of Grand Canyon. This layer was deposited catastrophically by a massive flow of sediment (mostly lime sand). The chalk and coal beds of Europe and the United States, and the fish, ichthyosaurs, insects, and other fossils all around the world, testify of catastrophic destruction and burial.
Evidence #3—Rapidly deposited sediment layers spread across vast areas.
We find rock layers that can be traced all the way across continents—even between continents—and physical features in those strata indicate they were deposited rapidly. For example, the Tapeats Sandstone and Redwall Limestone of Grand Canyon can be traced across the entire United States, up into Canada, and even across the Atlantic Ocean to England. The chalk beds of England (the white cliffs of Dover) can be traced across Europe into the Middle East and are also found in the Midwest of the United States and in Western Australia. Inclined (sloping) layers within the Coconino Sandstone of Grand Canyon are testimony to 10,000 cubic miles of sand being deposited by huge water currents within days.
Evidence #4—Sediment transported long distances.
We find that the sediments in those widespread, rapidly deposited rock layers had to be eroded from distant sources and carried long distances by fast-moving water. For example, the sand for the Coconino Sandstone of Grand Canyon (Arizona) had to be eroded and transported from the northern portion of what is now the United States and Canada. Furthermore, water current indicators (such as ripple marks) preserved in rock layers show that for “300 million years” water currents were consistently flowing from northeast to southwest across all of North and South America, which, of course, is only possible over weeks during a global flood.
Evidence #5—Rapid or no erosion between strata.
We find evidence of rapid erosion, or even of no erosion, between rock layers. Flat, knife-edge boundaries between rock layers indicate continuous deposition of one layer after another, with no time for erosion. For example, there is no evidence of any “missing” millions of years (of erosion) in the flat boundary between two well-known layers of Grand Canyon—the Coconino Sandstone and the Hermit Formation. Another impressive example of flat boundaries at Grand Canyon is the Redwall Limestone and the strata beneath it.
Evidence #6—Many strata laid down in rapid succession.
Rocks do not normally bend; they break because they are hard and brittle. But in many places we find whole sequences of strata that were bent without fracturing, indicating that all the rock layers were rapidly deposited and folded while still wet and pliable before final hardening. For example, the Tapeats Sandstone in Grand Canyon is folded at a right angle (90°) without evidence of breaking. Yet this folding could only have occurred after the rest of the layers had been deposited, supposedly over “480 million years,” while the Tapeats Sandstone remained wet and pliable.
Conclusion
Jesus Christ our Creator (John 1:1–3; Colossians 1:16–17), who is the Truth and would never tell us a lie, said that during the “days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37; Luke 17:26–27) “Noah entered the Ark” and “the Flood came and took them all away” (Matthew 24:38–39). He spoke of these events as real, literal history, describing a global Flood that destroyed all land life not on the Ark.
Therefore, we must believe what Christ told us, rather than the ideas of fallible scientists who weren’t there to see what happened in the earth’s past. Thus we shouldn’t be surprised when the geologic evidence in God’s world (rightly understood by asking the right questions) agrees exactly with God’s Word, affirmed by Jesus Christ.
Evidence #1—Fossils of sea creatures high above sea level due to the ocean waters having flooded over the continents.
We find fossils of sea creatures in rock layers that cover all the continents. For example, most of the rock layers in the walls of Grand Canyon (more than a mile above sea level) contain marine fossils. Fossilized shellfish are even found in the Himalayas.
Evidence #2—Rapid burial of plants and animals.
We find extensive fossil “graveyards” and exquisitely preserved fossils. For example, billions of nautiloid fossils are found in a layer within the Redwall Limestone of Grand Canyon. This layer was deposited catastrophically by a massive flow of sediment (mostly lime sand). The chalk and coal beds of Europe and the United States, and the fish, ichthyosaurs, insects, and other fossils all around the world, testify of catastrophic destruction and burial.
Evidence #3—Rapidly deposited sediment layers spread across vast areas.
We find rock layers that can be traced all the way across continents—even between continents—and physical features in those strata indicate they were deposited rapidly. For example, the Tapeats Sandstone and Redwall Limestone of Grand Canyon can be traced across the entire United States, up into Canada, and even across the Atlantic Ocean to England. The chalk beds of England (the white cliffs of Dover) can be traced across Europe into the Middle East and are also found in the Midwest of the United States and in Western Australia. Inclined (sloping) layers within the Coconino Sandstone of Grand Canyon are testimony to 10,000 cubic miles of sand being deposited by huge water currents within days.
Evidence #4—Sediment transported long distances.
We find that the sediments in those widespread, rapidly deposited rock layers had to be eroded from distant sources and carried long distances by fast-moving water. For example, the sand for the Coconino Sandstone of Grand Canyon (Arizona) had to be eroded and transported from the northern portion of what is now the United States and Canada. Furthermore, water current indicators (such as ripple marks) preserved in rock layers show that for “300 million years” water currents were consistently flowing from northeast to southwest across all of North and South America, which, of course, is only possible over weeks during a global flood.
Evidence #5—Rapid or no erosion between strata.
We find evidence of rapid erosion, or even of no erosion, between rock layers. Flat, knife-edge boundaries between rock layers indicate continuous deposition of one layer after another, with no time for erosion. For example, there is no evidence of any “missing” millions of years (of erosion) in the flat boundary between two well-known layers of Grand Canyon—the Coconino Sandstone and the Hermit Formation. Another impressive example of flat boundaries at Grand Canyon is the Redwall Limestone and the strata beneath it.
Evidence #6—Many strata laid down in rapid succession.
Rocks do not normally bend; they break because they are hard and brittle. But in many places we find whole sequences of strata that were bent without fracturing, indicating that all the rock layers were rapidly deposited and folded while still wet and pliable before final hardening. For example, the Tapeats Sandstone in Grand Canyon is folded at a right angle (90°) without evidence of breaking. Yet this folding could only have occurred after the rest of the layers had been deposited, supposedly over “480 million years,” while the Tapeats Sandstone remained wet and pliable.
Conclusion
Jesus Christ our Creator (John 1:1–3; Colossians 1:16–17), who is the Truth and would never tell us a lie, said that during the “days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37; Luke 17:26–27) “Noah entered the Ark” and “the Flood came and took them all away” (Matthew 24:38–39). He spoke of these events as real, literal history, describing a global Flood that destroyed all land life not on the Ark.
Therefore, we must believe what Christ told us, rather than the ideas of fallible scientists who weren’t there to see what happened in the earth’s past. Thus we shouldn’t be surprised when the geologic evidence in God’s world (rightly understood by asking the right questions) agrees exactly with God’s Word, affirmed by Jesus Christ.
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MaryHelp777
Guest
Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich who had visions of scenes from the Bible, saw Noah’s Ark story as mentioned in the Bible.
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Bonnie
Guest
You can believe anything you want about the flood, but you can’t say your views must be believed or that it is Catholic doctrine.
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MaryHelp777
Guest
I never said anything about doctrine or what people must do.
I just said there is historical and geological evidence for it.
I just said there is historical and geological evidence for it.
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Bonnie
Guest
Just making sure. I know people who aren’t aware of our freedom to believe what we want about certain Bible passages.
Serendipity! Ran across a nice article: patheos.com/blogs/catholicauthenticity/2015/10/fun-with-truth/?ref_widget=related&ref_blog=catholicauthenticity&ref_post=lets-all-throw-things-at-stupid-christians
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Tim_D
Guest
Then why isn’t there any current, modern day photos or samples from the ark? If it is so rational that it exists, why haven’t we seen any of it other than grainy black and white photos?
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Tim_D
Guest
So, when Christ told us that “a man had two sons…,” or “it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a] and entrusted to them his property…” are we to literally believe that there was a man with two sons or that a master entrusted his property to his servants, since He “would never tell us a lie?”
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Tim_D
Guest
This harkens back to your thread about can there be historical errors in the Bible.
How many times does it need to be mentioned that the Church does not teach a literal reading of the early books of Genesis?
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edwest2
Guest
The CIA has photos of what it calls “the Ararat anomaly,” located on a mountain in Turkey. It is claimed the Turkish government will not allow an expedition to examine the Ark location due to security issues. It is also claimed that higher resolution photos of the Ark exist that were taken by a U-2. As someone who studies Intelligence history, the actual image quality of such photos are purposely degraded before publication in order to conceal the true resolution abilities of our imaging equipment from our “enemies.”
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
"Real History
"The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.
"Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.
"The Catechism explains that “Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day” (CCC 337), but “nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun” (CCC 338).
“It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis 1 as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history, even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.”
Source: Catholic Answers
Ed
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Tim_D
Guest
This statement is trying to have both ends of the argument. One moment it is saying Genesis is historical but the next moment it is saying that it isn’t presented as literal history.
You can’t have it both ways.
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edwest2
Guest
I don’t see it. It’s real history. Things God actually did. And I believe God has the power to do such things.
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
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Tim_D
Guest
The Church does not teach that the stories in the early chapters of Genesis are “real history,” in that they are expressed in literal terms. The Church has always said that the importance of these stories is not the medium that is used to present them but the spiritual truths that are revealed. It is not “history” in the sense of our understanding of history. We know that George Washington was a real man who lived, breathed and died but we do not take the story of him and the cherry tree as real, literal history. It is a story to convey realities about his character. Likewise, the early stories of Genesis.
It is shocking to me to see the extent that protestant fundamentalism has had on Catholics here in America.
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Bonnie
Guest
Agreed - shocking & sad.
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Tim_D
Guest
True. Don’t even get me started on Halloween.Agreed - shocking & sad.
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Faith1960
Guest
I understand that but this in particular has me worried. The CCC says 8 were saved by water or something to that effect. Is the CCC inerrant?
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