The Flood.......Again

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This would seem to be what St. Peter believed. Some also believe he was the first pope of their church. Does that not carry any authority? 🤷
Peter is simply stating what was believed about Noah and his family; that there were 8 people on the ark. It doesn’t mean that he applied a literal belief to it nor is he holding anyone’s feet to the fire in believing it. Do you suggest that, since he had the Keys of the Kingdom, that every utterance from his lips was an infallible statement?
 
We have always been told that the early stories of Genesis are a poetic telling of spiritual truths in many differing literary styles. To ascribe them as being literal history is as wrong as to simply dismiss them all as being no more than myth. Just as Jesus used parables and allusions to Old Testament events to make a point, so, too, does Genesis use stories and devices that would have been familiar to people of the ancient world to make its point.

Shakespeare used real people and events in his stories without being bound to a literal accuracy. It is beyond me why some think that the idea of the ancient authors doing the same thing is unacceptable. I have never understood this idea that the Bible must always be shown to be “true.”
The Bible claims that there were giants that walked the earth in the days of Noah. Do you believe that is literally true?
 
So with this comparison you believe that the OT contains accounts that are no truer than Shakespeare’s flights of fancy? So what about the prophets then - do they not exist either?
Why should the prophets not exist? Do we not have Old Testament books ascribed to them? Why do you take an all or nothing position on the entire Old Testament canon? The teaching authority of the Church tells us that the early texts of Genesis aren’t meant to be taken as a literal historical event. Why do you refuse to accept that position? Even St. Augustine did not subscribe to a literal reading of Genesis. What do you know that he and the teaching authority of the Church don’t???
 
Peter is simply stating what was believed about Noah and his family; that there were 8 people on the ark. It doesn’t mean that he applied a literal belief to it nor is he holding anyone’s feet to the fire in believing it. Do you suggest that, since he had the Keys of the Kingdom, that every utterance from his lips was an infallible statement?
Not unless it’s what became part of the bible.
 
The Bible claims that there were giants that walked the earth in the days of Noah. Do you believe that is literally true?
Seeing as I am not a fundamentalist when it comes to the Bible, then no, I don’t take it to be a literal historical fact.
 
Why should the prophets not exist? Do we not have Old Testament books ascribed to them? Why do you take an all or nothing position on the entire Old Testament canon? The teaching authority of the Church tells us that the early texts of Genesis aren’t meant to be taken as a literal historical event. Why do you refuse to accept that position? Even St. Augustine did not subscribe to a literal reading of Genesis. What do you know that he and the teaching authority of the Church don’t???
Do you accept or deny that Gen.1:1 was an actual historical event?
 
Do you accept or deny that Gen.1:1 was an actual historical event?
I think that that has already been asked and answered. If you have something to say, then say it but I’m not going to play 20 questions with you.

I just noticed that you are pentecostal, so I don’t think that we will find any common ground on the subject.
 
Oh, I see. So if it’s in the Bible, then it must be “true,” correct?
Well, did God give a reliable source of truth or not? Did Jesus claim that His word will stand for ever or not? If not then every religion has an an equal right to truth claims.
 
Seeing as I am not a fundamentalist when it comes to the Bible, then no, I don’t take it to be a literal historical fact.
The reason i asked that particular question is because if is not literal then there would be no reason for an actual flood or an ark.
 
I think that that has already been asked and answered. If you have something to say, then say it but I’m not going to play 20 questions with you.

I just noticed that you are pentecostal, so I don’t think that we will find any common ground on the subject.
I just thought that would be a starting point,but…
 
Why should the prophets not exist? Do we not have Old Testament books ascribed to them? Why do you take an all or nothing position on the entire Old Testament canon? The teaching authority of the Church tells us that the early texts of Genesis aren’t meant to be taken as a literal historical event. Why do you refuse to accept that position? Even St. Augustine did not subscribe to a literal reading of Genesis. What do you know that he and the teaching authority of the Church don’t???
I don’t and yet I do understand that these books were collated after much prayer and deliberation. Out of reverence more than anything do I attribute the possibility of everything in there. For the Holy Spirit. And because it contains The Word. Whether this interpretation is to be poetry or story or history fact. Or a combination of all of the above.

The Church has not told us to dismiss everything in Genesis as purely figurative. St. Augustine reasoned that Christological insight into Genesis helps us to see the meaning and he does assert that the first (probably second) Genesis story is figurative. And what we understand to not be true in the sense of literal can in fact be true when seen in the way the people wrote - as a kind of summing up of their faith and relationship at the time.

The Second account does not have to be historically accurate but I think it is very presumptious to call people fundamentalists because they can see that a certain thing could be true when you can’t. I happen to believe in the legitimate claim of the Second to be an historical event based on the first two people during evolution. This makes sense to me and no doubt many others based on a lot of factors.

There was a flood recorded that happened which could, and I believe does, account for the story of Noah. Where people are concerned and mentioned, there is no argument.

We do know that later on, the story of Job is just that, a story. Yet, even in the case of Job, it could be based on real people, because the story is so true and therefore likely to have happened, to one and many. Her is like an archetypal suffering servant.

Ultimately though, what is important, is that the books of the OT show the life of the people in various genres, a creative expression of a peoples, growing in knowledge of their Creator. Written in many forms and coming under various genres. This is what matters most. More than trying to prove historical facts from more poetic language.
 
The Church does not teach that the stories in the early chapters of Genesis are “real history,” in that they are expressed in literal terms. The Church has always said that the importance of these stories is not the medium that is used to present them but the spiritual truths that are revealed. It is not “history” in the sense of our understanding of history. We know that George Washington was a real man who lived, breathed and died but we do not take the story of him and the cherry tree as real, literal history. It is a story to convey realities about his character. Likewise, the early stories of Genesis.

It is shocking to me to see the extent that protestant fundamentalism has had on Catholics here in America.
I wasn’t raised a Protestant. I was taught a global flood actually occurred in Catholic school.

Ed
 
I wasn’t raised a Protestant. I was taught a global flood actually occurred in Catholic school.

Ed
I sometimes wonder whether, because something is in the Bible, the secular worlds believes there can be no historicity to it, as an automatic response, but I’m sure this misunderstanding went out about sixty years ago. The greatest war to wage against Christianity is to make people believe none of it existed. This is all old-hat opposition to the Bible.
 
I wasn’t raised a Protestant. I was taught a global flood actually occurred in Catholic school.

Ed
In the early 1900’s geologists were actively looking for evidence in the field to support the Flood. That was science and geology in England in the early 1900’s so I don’t suppose it was much different anywhere else.
What modern geology has found is that every continent was under the sea at some point or another. Or apparently so as everywhere there are layers of marine sedimentary rock covering all the continents and ascribed differing ages.
Rather awkward to say there was no global flood and that all dry land on earth was in fact flooded at some point or another.
 
Seeing as I am not a fundamentalist when it comes to the Bible, then no, I don’t take it to be a literal historical fact.
If I believed in the fundamental teachings of my faith , would I be classified as a
fundamentalist ?
 
The Church does not teach that the stories in the early chapters of Genesis are “real history,” in that they are expressed in literal terms. The Church has always said that the importance of these stories is not the medium that is used to present them but the spiritual truths that are revealed. It is not “history” in the sense of our understanding of history. We know that George Washington was a real man who lived, breathed and died but we do not take the story of him and the cherry tree as real, literal history. It is a story to convey realities about his character. Likewise, the early stories of Genesis.

It is shocking to me to see the extent that protestant fundamentalism has had on Catholics here in America.
Of course those protestants cannot have found any truths we Catholics might have ignored! It must be in our church teaching somewhere that we are the only ones that have any of the truth. Well, it certainly must be a relief for you, Tim, to be pure from THAT influence! :rolleyes:

Just wondering - does the Catholic Church teach that Genesis is only “stories”, and that there is NO historical truth or accuracy to them? That they are just made-up fictional events used to tell some other point?

Because I have not found this in my Catechism.
 
You said it well. This topic reminds me of a good Protestant call-in show I used to listen to. A woman caller insisted that since Jesus would never lie, every parable in the NT was literally true. The host tried hard to explain to her that one doesn’t need to tell a “true” story to reveal Truth, but she couldn’t get it.
Maybe He made them up. Maybe He didn’t. The host was right that one does not need to tell a true story to reveal the truth. However, I hope someone explained to him that one CAN.

Jesus was Omniscient, so He knew every story of every single life that lived on earth and ever will live on earth, so it He would have had thousands (millions?) of true and interesting stories to pick from that woudl be perfect for any parable. But perhaps he was bored with all the billions of stories he already knew and had perfect access to, and thought it would be more fun to make one up. 🤷

Or maybe He didn’t. He didn’t tell us though…
 
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