The Flood.......Again

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They did draw on reality.
The chief reality is that God exists, and he works powerfully in the world, both physically and spiritually. He is True, and his truth is much larger than our ability to glean the facts.

He is capable of literally anything. We are not. God is not held in the tiny box of our understanding.

Keep in mind that God’s full and final revelation is NOT scripture. Scripture is part of God’s revelation, but the fullfilment and summation of it is a person, Jesus Christ.

Fundamentalism, which insists on rigid factuality is not of a mind with the Church. It robs the scriptures of their fullness.
Benedict Verbum Domini “The Fundamentalist Interpretation of Scriptures” paragraph 40 something.
Revelation - The Word - is to be found in Scripture and realised fully in Heaven when He is written in fullness like a blueprint upon the soul.

The Church and her tradition in all her glory stems from Revelation in Holy Scripture which is (who IS) revealed over time that all may participate in His salvific work during Salvation History.

This being another reason why Dei Verbum speaks about a certain reverence that we are to have in our hearts for Holy Scripture - because in Holy Scripture breathes The Word who IS our eternal wellspring of wisdom brought to us through the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is not just a book. This is why mystical depths can breathe literally from Scripture and thus feed our souls. It contains all we need to get to Heaven if we don’t just read it but pray it and live it. Because within it is The Word through which all creation came to be - including our very own souls.
 
Also Clem, fundamentalist Christianity would say that every single detail is literal in the OT - including the first Creation story, and that the Creation Story somehow does away with the theory of evolution…

this is not what this thread concerns itself with.

As far as people are concerned, no where does any document say that we are to believe that these people didn’t exist in Genesis, and neither does it say that if events can be traced with some degree of accuracy are not to be taken as having happened i.e:-

The first Creation story - St. Augustine said the whole account is allegorical. And sure, if we look back to the story with Christological insight we can see Him present in there. Does this mean there is no truth in there. No. Because if He is in there then it contains truth. We then look back to the HISTORY of the people at that time using exegetical methods to see why and in what form and for what reason this was written to confirm Truth. I think maybe this is a song that ancient Jews sung together on their day of rest!

The Second (probably first) - Adam and Eve. Their names hold meaning. And the account expresses a Divine mystical reality. Is it literal? It is not fundamentalism to believe it was. It certainly goes to explain so much about humanity. (Read the CCC).

Both creation stories are not opposed to evolution and not opposed to science. Though science has trouble explaining the depths of the soul.

In the case of Noah, we don’t need to say the story of Him is purely figurative, because there have been floods recorded around that time. Did the animals go on two by two? I don’t know about that. But maybe it worked out like that because our Creator can Will anything. And so I’d say: why not?!

Point being, that He was there with the ancient Jews, amongst them. We don’t need to doubt anything really because we know it contains the Truth. There will always be a gap between worldly thinking and Christian faith. The gap can be bridged and this bridge is made in the practical daily lives of people where they grow in realisation that there is some deeper meaning to life. And so it would have been for the Jews who expressed their lives and history with wonderful divinely inspired accounts. This is not “fundamentalism”. It is reverence towards The Word and our spiritual ancestors (also His children).

I don’t think we are on different pages about this except that it is important to point out that just because something is in the Old Testament does not automatically mean it is only allegorical! The collation of books is a collective celebration but not every single event was soley a spiritual summary. :hey_bud:
 
Revelation - The Word - is to be found in Scripture and realised fully in Heaven when He is written in fullness like a blueprint upon the soul.

The Church and her tradition in all her glory stems from Revelation in Holy Scripture which is (who IS) revealed over time that all may participate in His salvific work during Salvation History.

This being another reason why Dei Verbum speaks about a certain reverence that we are to have in our hearts for Holy Scripture - because in Holy Scripture breathes The Word who IS our eternal wellspring of wisdom brought to us through the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is not just a book.
Let’s just stop here. The problem is, if one says anything that does not support the literalist details of the bible, this^^^^ is the stock response. You come back with a rebuttal to a non-issue. Posters who post what the Church actually teaches are hit with spin. What you are doing here is straw man. I didn’t say one thing that disrespects Scripture… Not one thing.
This is why mystical depths can breathe literally from Scripture and thus feed our souls. It contains all we need to get to Heaven if we don’t just read it but pray it and live it. Because within it is The Word through which all creation came to be - including our very own souls.
Well yes and no.
Just to be clear, Scripture is one way God reveals himself. God’s full and final revelation is Jesus Christ, who as the Word Made Flesh expresses all else God reveals.

“All we need to get to heaven”, as you say, is to know Jesus Christ. Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium, bring us to know Christ.
 
Also Clem, fundamentalist Christianity would say that every single detail is literal in the OT - including the first Creation story, and that the Creation Story somehow does away with the theory of evolution…

this is not what this thread concerns itself with.
Au contraire. This whole thread deals with a question about the literal details, (which is fine. I’d like to know how many people and how many animals walked off the boat also). But, in discussing this question about the literal details, a few posters have questioned the integrity of faith and the CCC, as if their integrity depends on these details. Go back and read the questions and responses. It is good for historians to pursue these questions, as the answers can edify the faith. But the details **do not **affect the inerracy of Scripture, or the integrity of the faith, or the integrity of the CCC. In another thread, we have a poster having a fit over whether Jesus was born in Bethlehem or Nazareth, as if the whole of salvation history hinges on this question. These questions are not a matter of faith, they are a matter of discovery at best, but most likely they are simply curiosity, which is fine in it’s proper place. If we are a scientist or historian, whose vocation it is to discover these things, they are of some import. The rest of us…how can we possibly know, and truly, what difference does it make in our life of faith?
As far as people are concerned, no where does any document say that we are to believe that these people didn’t exist in Genesis, and neither does it say that if events can be traced with some degree of accuracy are not to be taken as having happened i.e:-
The first Creation story - St. Augustine said the whole account is allegorical. And sure, if we look back to the story with Christological insight we can see Him present in there. Does this mean there is no truth in there. No. Because if He is in there then it contains truth. We then look back to the HISTORY of the people at that time using exegetical methods to see why and in what form and for what reason this was written to confirm Truth. I think maybe this is a song that ancient Jews sung together on their day of rest
!
Not sure why we are going over this but yea, any Catholic can agree with that. 🤷
The Second (probably first) - Adam and Eve. Their names hold meaning. And the account expresses a Divine mystical reality. Is it literal? It is not fundamentalism to believe it was. It certainly goes to explain so much about humanity. (Read the CCC).
Both creation stories are not opposed to evolution and not opposed to science. Though science has trouble explaining the depths of the soul.
Agreed
In the case of Noah, we don’t need to say the story of Him is purely figurative, because there have been floods recorded around that time. Did the animals go on two by two? I don’t know about that. But maybe it worked out like that because our Creator can Will anything. And so I’d say: why not?!
Ok. Fine by me. 🤷 We did have a poster who tied our ability to accept the literal details to acceptance of God’s omnipotence though. As if one requires the other. That is textbook fundamentalism.
Point being, that He was there with the ancient Jews, amongst them. We don’t need to doubt anything really because we know it contains the Truth. There will always be a gap between worldly thinking and Christian faith. The gap can be bridged and this bridge is made in the practical daily lives of people where they grow in realisation that there is some deeper meaning to life. And so it would have been for the Jews who expressed their lives and history with wonderful divinely inspired accounts. This is not “fundamentalism”. It is reverence towards The Word and our spiritual ancestors (also His children).
I agree. Didn’t say this ^^^^ point of view is fundamentalism. again 🤷
I don’t think we are on different pages about this except that it is important to point out that just because something is in the Old Testament does not automatically mean it is only allegorical! The collation of books is a collective celebration but not every single event was soley a spiritual summary. :hey_bud :
Right.
We do pretty much agree but there is a communication problem.
 
CHAPTER TWO
GOD COMES TO MEET MAN
50 By natural reason man can know God with certainty, on the basis of his works. But there is another order of knowledge, which man cannot possibly arrive at by his own powers: the order of divine Revelation.1 Through an utterly free decision, God has revealed himself and given himself to man. This he does by revealing the mystery, his plan of loving goodness, formed from all eternity** in Christ**, for the benefit of all men. God has** fully revealed this plan by sending us his beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.**
ARTICLE 1
THE REVELATION OF GOD
I. GOD REVEALS HIS “PLAN OF LOVING GOODNESS”
51 "It pleased God, in his goodness and wisdom, to reveal himself and to make known the mystery of his will. His will was that men should have access to the Father, through Christ, the Word made flesh, in the Holy Spirit, and thus become sharers in the divine nature."2
52 God, who “dwells in unapproachable light”, **wants to communicate his own divine life **to the men he freely created, in order to adopt them as his sons in his only-begotten Son.3 By revealing himself God wishes to make them capable of responding to him, and of knowing him and of loving him far beyond their own natural capacity.
53 The divine plan of Revelation is realized simultaneously "by deeds and words which are intrinsically bound up with each other"4 and shed light on each another. It involves a specific divine pedagogy: God communicates himself to man gradually. He prepares him to welcome by stages the supernatural Revelation that is to culminate in the person and mission of the incarnate Word, Jesus Christ.

III. **CHRIST JESUS **-- "**MEDIATOR AND FULLNESS OF **ALL REVELATION"25
God has said everything in his Word
65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man,** is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word**. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:

GOD COMES TO MEET MAN
ARTICLE 3
SACRED SCRIPTURE
I. **CHRIST - THE UNIQUE WORD OF SACRED SCRIPTURE **
101 In order to reveal himself to men, in the condescension of his goodness God speaks to them in human words: "Indeed the words of God, expressed in the words of men, are in every way like human language, just as the Word of the eternal Father, when he took on himself the flesh of human weakness, became like men."63
102 Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:64
You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time.65
103 For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body.66
104 In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it not as a human word, "but as what it really is, the word of God".67 "In the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven comes lovingly to meet his children, and talks with them."68
 
Let’s just stop here. The problem is, if one says anything that does not support the literalist details of the bible, this^^^^ is the stock response. You come back with a rebuttal to a non-issue. Posters who post what the Church actually teaches are hit with spin. What you are doing here is straw man. I didn’t say one thing that disrespects Scripture… Not one thing.
It is a “stock response” because it is a natural response. Well, you claim people are “fundamentalists” because they believe things you claimed initially, as a “geologist”, to be false: Scripture teaches of loving one’s neighbour, and I wouldn’t think that summing people as fundamentalists is charitable.
Well yes and no. Just to be clear, Scripture is one way God reveals himself. God’s full and final revelation is Jesus Christ, who as the Word Made Flesh expresses all else God reveals. “All we need to get to heaven”, as you say, is to know Jesus Christ. Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium, bring us to know Christ.
Just to be clear, Holy Scripture contains The Word, and the FULLNESS of Revelation, of the The Word in Scripture, who is thus revealed and realised in Creation over time, via developments and deepening of understanding in the Church, Tradition etc…of Scripture, and The Word it contains - it is not just a book. The very wellspring of Theology, which is life itself, breathes from the Divine Wisdom SPOKEN in the Bible, and the very words written consist of Truth and Light Himself, who still speaks through Scripture every time we approach it, and as such, the soul drinks from this Fountain of Wisdom. If one were to cut themselves off from Holy Scripture altogether, with no contact, they would soon move away to some degree from He who is our Everything. If one has been away from the faith then one soon finds company in Holy Scripture again - not only are administering the Sacraments the main service of the priest, for example, but also delivering to our souls Holy Scripture and the homilies that accompany them. This is why we are told by The Word to go and preach the Gospel to all the nations…because the Gospel, and Holy Scripture, is the Living Word - The Good News - our living testament of His Presence among us which we take forth in our lives as a continuation of those believers but a realisation of all that is in Scripture. There is nothing to add to Scripture. Only the realisation over time of the fact that these roots are in fact Eternal.
 
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clem456:
Thank you the CCC citation. 😉
 
Au contraire. This whole thread deals with a question about the literal details, (which is fine. I’d like to know how many people and how many animals walked off the boat also). But, in discussing this question about the literal details, a few posters have questioned the integrity of faith and the CCC, as if their integrity depends on these details. Go back and read the questions and responses. It is good for historians to pursue these questions, as the answers can edify the faith. But the details **do not **affect the inerracy of Scripture, or the integrity of the faith, or the integrity of the CCC. In another thread, we have a poster having a fit over whether Jesus was born in Bethlehem or Nazareth, as if the whole of salvation history hinges on this question. These questions are not a matter of faith, they are a matter of discovery at best, but most likely they are simply curiosity, which is fine in it’s proper place. If we are a scientist or historian, whose vocation it is to discover these things, they are of some import. The rest of us…how can we possibly know, and truly, what difference does it make in our life of faith? !
Not sure why we are going over this but yea, any Catholic can agree with that. 🤷

Agreed

Ok. Fine by me. 🤷 We did have a poster who tied our ability to accept the literal details to acceptance of God’s omnipotence though. As if one requires the other. That is textbook fundamentalism.

I agree. Didn’t say this ^^^^ point of view is fundamentalism. again 🤷

Right.
We do pretty much agree but there is a communication problem.
Okay, so we’re there then. I don’t know about “problem”, as this type of discussion is pretty normal. So no need for 🤷 and more of 🙂
 
It is a “stock response” because it is a natural response. Well, you claim people are “fundamentalists” because they believe things you claimed initially, as a “geologist”, to be false: Scripture teaches of loving one’s neighbour, and I wouldn’t think that summing people as fundamentalists is charitable.

Just to be clear, Holy Scripture contains The Word, and the FULLNESS of Revelation, of the The Word in Scripture, who is thus revealed and realised in Creation over time, via developments and deepening of understanding in the Church, Tradition etc…of Scripture, and The Word it contains - it is not just a book. The very wellspring of Theology, which is life itself, breathes from the Divine Wisdom SPOKEN in the Bible, and the very words written consist of Truth and Light Himself, who still speaks through Scripture every time we approach it, and as such, the soul drinks from this Fountain of Wisdom. If one were to cut themselves off from Holy Scripture altogether, with no contact, they would soon move away to some degree from He who is our Everything. If one has been away from the faith then one soon finds company in Holy Scripture again - not only are administering the Sacraments the main service of the priest, for example, but also delivering to our souls Holy Scripture and the homilies that accompany them. This is why we are told by The Word to go and preach the Gospel to all the nations…because the Gospel, and Holy Scripture, is the Living Word - The Good News - our living testament of His Presence among us which we take forth in our lives as a continuation of those believers but a realisation of all that is in Scripture. There is nothing to add to Scripture. Only the realisation over time of the fact that these roots are in fact Eternal.
Right, Sacred Scripture is not just a book. It speaks the life of Christ. 🤷 Can we move on from that?

The reason I quoted from the CCC is that, just to be clear as the Church is clear, Jesus is the fullness of God’s revelation. End of story. You can say lots of other great things, but the fullness of revelation is God’s Son, Jesus Christ. The Church itself only uses this language in regard to Christ. This is a subtle but important difference, the misunderstanding of which is the fuel for much confusion and anxiety, as demonstrated. All of Scripture leads us to life in Christ, not to details.
III. CHRIST JESUS – "MEDIATOR AND FULLNESS OF ALL REVELATION"25
God has said everything in his Word
65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:
In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.
27
And I’m not going any further.
If someone wants to parse further what the Church teaches, call your bishop and have at it.
 
Right, Sacred Scripture is not just a book. It speaks the life of Christ. 🤷 Can we move on from that?

The reason I quoted from the CCC is that, just to be clear as the Church is clear, Jesus is the fullness of God’s revelation. End of story. You can say lots of other great things, but the fullness of revelation is God’s Son, Jesus Christ. The Church itself only uses this language in regard to Christ. This is a subtle but important difference, the misunderstanding of which is the fuel for much confusion and anxiety, as demonstrated. All of Scripture leads us to life in Christ, not to details.

And I’m not going any further.
If someone wants to parse further what the Church teaches, call your bishop and have at it.
Well, I have Good News for you…

Words are important, in fact - including silence in which much communication takes place. - because words, whether by literal word or action, express the Truth as opposed to falsity. If words were not important or relevant then the Second Person of the Holy Trinity would not be The Word…

The Truth is, that the fullness of Revelation is in Holy Scripture, and is thus realised throughout salvation history via the Church. Not just words - THE TRUTH. The Revelation being: HE IS. Amen.

In response to the part in bold: needs alteration. You say “All of Scripture leads us to life in Christ.” This is slightly incorrect.

Life is already revealed in Scripture, that we are living in Him and He in us, and this truth is revealed to us via the Church and is Good News to be shared. Not “leads to”, in explicit terms, because The Word in Scripture is “realised in us and through us”.

I draw upon this subtle misconception not just because of your posts, but because this misunderstanding can lead many to thinking that a “life in Christ” is some kind of wonderful future that awaits us in this world that we haven’t established or encountered yet, and yes, fruit can come of service, but life in Him is now, today, in the muck and the dirt, and the dryness and the grey times. It start today. Similar to the OT Jews with whom He walked and led but we have Him in us. The Word in Scripture is IN US as we discover that He is living through us - fullness of Scripture being realised. The “life in Christ”, is right now. We are breathed in and out - in to prayer and out to the world.

Though I get what you’re saying and like the part underlined.
 
For a long time liberal scholars doubted that King David was an a real man until a stone was found with an inscription bearing his name and title.🤷

BTW, the ark was not round. The exact dimensions are given in the bible. The proportion specified is the most stable platform for a sea vessel. It was used for the first large iron battleships because they needed the best stability for the huge guns.
Perhaps he means the hull was circular. But I do agree that a sphere, although would be the strongest, would be bad for the people inside. You know those fair rides where they strap you in and spin you round and round? It would be something like that.

gizmag.com/tsunami-proof-shelter-backyard/31355/
 
Perhaps he means the hull was circular. But I do agree that a sphere, although would be the strongest, would be bad for the people inside. You know those fair rides where they strap you in and spin you round and round? It would be something like that.

gizmag.com/tsunami-proof-shelter-backyard/31355/
😛 Fair grounds rides: urgh!

Bill Bryson (think it was him 🤷) joked that the only animal left on the Ark would have been the lion, for obvious reasons.

I think it would have been messy. Whatever the sitch was, grace would have helped for all to be well.

Roundness of Ark…I read an article ages ago that said the most sea-worthy vessel likely to survive would be round. And there were reasons to think that it would have been a probable design at that time. I’ll see if I can find the article online. The vessel in the article that you shared looks a little too jazzy for the ancient world but nice though. Sensible if one lives where tsunamis occur though he could have built it bigger! The trouble would be in deciding who to let on?
 
So, when Christ told us that “a man had two sons…,” or “it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a] and entrusted to them his property…” are we to literally believe that there was a man with two sons or that a master entrusted his property to his servants, since He “would never tell us a lie?”
So this is a parable spoken by Jesus:

Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31
 
satellite pictures have p(name removed by moderator)ointed the vessel’s final resting place. The object in the photo is located on Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey, the area where the Bible says Noah survived a monstrous flood that covered the earth.

Porcher Taylor has spent 13 years on a quest to find out exactly what that satellite picture mystery object might be. Taylor is an Assistant. Professor at the University of Richmond, in Virginia. He teaches National Security Law. He told CBN News, “I see, for a 1015 feet in length, a ship-like object that has almost unbroken symmetry.”

That’s bigger than the generally-accepted Biblical description. But Taylor says the object has the same length-to-width ratio as the Ark described in Genesis.

Over the years, many have searched this area for evidence of Noah’s voyage. Bruce Feiler is the author of Walking The Bible. Feiler said, “Czar Nicholas sent an expedition in the early 20th century. U2 spy planes were [camera] shooting this mountain in the 1950s, eve
Love this.
 
Chinese and Turkish explorers say wooden remains they have discovered on Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey are the remains of Noah’s Ark.

Carbon dating proves the relics are 4,800 years old, meaning they date to around the same time the ark was said to be built.

the structure contained several compartments, some with wooden beams, that they believe were used to house
animals.

At an elevation of more than 4,000 meters, a structure built with plank-like timber. Each plank is about 8 inches wide.
tenons, proof of ancient construction predating the use of metal nails."

the wooden structure is permanently covered by ice and volcanic rocks.

All the locals tell of stories of visits to an ancient ship visible at certain times on the mountain.

The Ark is on the Armenian flag, and the Armenian nation also say it is resting frozen in the snow on the peak of Mount Ararat.

In Ireland there was a stone age burial mound in County meath. All the locals told the story that the sun used to go into that burial mound one day during the year. This mound was 2,500 years older than the pyramids. Archaeologists dug it up and discovered a passage way to a tomb, with a window box that on the 21st December the morning light on the winter solstice shines into a window above the door and lights up the three burial chambers.
So the local stories, passed down over 5,000 years were true, and that site is called Newgrange in Ireland.
I have heard such things once and did not remeber all these details. Thanks for posting this, Mary!
 
Six Evidences for the Genesis Flood
Evidence #1—Fossils of sea creatures high above sea level due to the ocean waters having flooded over the continents.
We find fossils of sea creatures in rock layers that cover all the continents. For example, most of the rock layers in the walls of Grand Canyon (more than a mile above sea level) contain marine fossils. Fossilized shellfish are even found in the Himalayas.

Evidence #2—Rapid burial of plants and animals.
We find extensive fossil “graveyards” and exquisitely preserved fossils. For example, billions of nautiloid fossils are found in a layer within the Redwall Limestone of Grand Canyon. This layer was deposited catastrophically by a massive flow of sediment (mostly lime sand). The chalk and coal beds of Europe and the United States, and the fish, ichthyosaurs, insects, and other fossils all around the world, testify of catastrophic destruction and burial.

Evidence #3—Rapidly deposited sediment layers spread across vast areas.
We find rock layers that can be traced all the way across continents—even between continents—and physical features in those strata indicate they were deposited rapidly. For example, the Tapeats Sandstone and Redwall Limestone of Grand Canyon can be traced across the entire United States, up into Canada, and even across the Atlantic Ocean to England. The chalk beds of England (the white cliffs of Dover) can be traced across Europe into the Middle East and are also found in the Midwest of the United States and in Western Australia. Inclined (sloping) layers within the Coconino Sandstone of Grand Canyon are testimony to 10,000 cubic miles of sand being deposited by huge water currents within days.

Evidence #4—Sediment transported long distances.
We find that the sediments in those widespread, rapidly deposited rock layers had to be eroded from distant sources and carried long distances by fast-moving water. For example, the sand for the Coconino Sandstone of Grand Canyon (Arizona) had to be eroded and transported from the northern portion of what is now the United States and Canada. Furthermore, water current indicators (such as ripple marks) preserved in rock layers show that for “300 million years” water currents were consistently flowing from northeast to southwest across all of North and South America, which, of course, is only possible over weeks during a global flood.

Evidence #5—Rapid or no erosion between strata.
We find evidence of rapid erosion, or even of no erosion, between rock layers. Flat, knife-edge boundaries between rock layers indicate continuous deposition of one layer after another, with no time for erosion. For example, there is no evidence of any “missing” millions of years (of erosion) in the flat boundary between two well-known layers of Grand Canyon—the Coconino Sandstone and the Hermit Formation. Another impressive example of flat boundaries at Grand Canyon is the Redwall Limestone and the strata beneath it.

Evidence #6—Many strata laid down in rapid succession.
Rocks do not normally bend; they break because they are hard and brittle. But in many places we find whole sequences of strata that were bent without fracturing, indicating that all the rock layers were rapidly deposited and folded while still wet and pliable before final hardening. For example, the Tapeats Sandstone in Grand Canyon is folded at a right angle (90°) without evidence of breaking. Yet this folding could only have occurred after the rest of the layers had been deposited, supposedly over “480 million years,” while the Tapeats Sandstone remained wet and pliable.

Conclusion
Jesus Christ our Creator (John 1:1–3; Colossians 1:16–17), who is the Truth and would never tell us a lie, said that during the “days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37; Luke 17:26–27) “Noah entered the Ark” and “the Flood came and took them all away” (Matthew 24:38–39). He spoke of these events as real, literal history, describing a global Flood that destroyed all land life not on the Ark.

Therefore, we must believe what Christ told us, rather than the ideas of fallible scientists who weren’t there to see what happened in the earth’s past. Thus we shouldn’t be surprised when the geologic evidence in God’s world (rightly understood by asking the right questions) agrees exactly with God’s Word, affirmed by Jesus Christ.
I remember once reading such evidences and now when I read vain naysayers, I always notice how they completely ignore these scientific theories, that do hold weight. You have provided the treasures in this thread, Mary. Thank you!
 
The CIA has photos of what it calls “the Ararat anomaly,” located on a mountain in Turkey. It is claimed the Turkish government will not allow an expedition to examine the Ark location due to security issues. It is also claimed that higher resolution photos of the Ark exist that were taken by a U-2. As someone who studies Intelligence history, the actual image quality of such photos are purposely degraded before publication in order to conceal the true resolution abilities of our imaging equipment from our “enemies.”
Ed
This certainly makes sense to me!
 
I remember once reading such evidences and now when I read vain naysayers, I always notice how they completely ignore these scientific theories, that do hold weight. You have provided the treasures in this thread, Mary. Thank you!
This is very interesting. Could you provide a source?

Best,
Ed
 
This is very interesting. Could you provide a source?
Best,
Ed
I wish I could! But what I remember is basically what I said. I see what my mind tells me is true, and then I don’t remember the detailed arguments before/against – at least in these science arguments.

So I will rant a bit here. With the flood and with the Evolution debates, the arguments for proof, I just don’t care. The flood as with evolution - to me, the truth is obvious and people who study and argue too much have brains to full of supposed facts they covet that obscure the big fact - truth. i.e.: The obvious truth is that God made animals and God made people and He did not make animals who turned into people. God made one man and one woman from whom we all came, and yes, we get to know their names. I don’t even try to get in the fray, or store up convincing arguments for what is to me a stupid and useless argument.

I think scientific facts that are real and plausible that support the flood or any other Biblical reality are interesting, though. I remember as an Evangelical reading things from Institute for Creation Research (not sure if I have that name right) a long while back. I cannot vouch for all they say because I am not a scientist. But I can read and think, and they have a LOT of convincing things to say, that any real or self-named scientist who wants his colleagues approval would run from! Creationists are supposed to be mocked, right? That proves you are in the real science club. Nothing a Creationist has to say can be taken seriously, right? No. Wrong. I am not their defenders as i am no scientist, but I do know a truth seeker and a truth ignorer when i see one. I feel sorry for people who feel they HAVE to disbelieve them because they HAVE to believe the Bible can’t possibly be correct on facts - in order to be seen as intelligent. I am sorry for anyone who is burdened with the need to be seen as intelligent. i don’t care how intelligent or not anyone thinks I am. 🤷 There will always be some more and some less intelligent than me, anyway…
 
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