The flood Local or Worldwide

[TARRAT]

What are we to believe about the flood of Noah? Was it a world wide flood or just a middle eastern flood? If it was worldwide then why are there other peoples besides the middle eastern peoples that were saved on the Arc?

 

[CarmeliteKnight]

The flood was worldwide. It was God’s way of baptizing the entire world and washing it from the sins of the corrupt flesh.

And there are other peoples upon the world because of migration and human’s ability to adapt to their environment. Hence why you see lighter skinned people in the northern colder climates and darker skin people near the equater.

 

[butterlover]

the Catholic Church does not teach that this is a literal story! no one has to believe it was a world-wide flood. Really, a good bible study book or program should tell you more… Jeff Cavins’ is a good start.

See the important part is that this was a Jewish writing for many, many years before the Catholic Church took the Old Testament along with her. We have to understand Jewish storytelling and how some stories are meant to be historical, others more allegorical. Some Jewish storytelling is done a certain way to get a point across. Many Old Testament events happened, but the Jewish writers did not write them down fact by fact. They told the story after it happened in a certain way, on purpose. We can’t just read the Bible as a history book since it wasn’t written exactly like that. A good Bible study that goes really deep into the Jewish roots of the Catholic faith and the writings of the Old Testament should help you in this.

There was a flood in the area where Noah lived, but unlikely it was global.

The Catholic Church has a very long and beautiful relationship with science and learning about the world God created, and has not found any evidence yet to suggest Noah’s story was supposed to be taken completely literally and factually.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who lived at the time of Noah. The known world from the perspective of an actor in the story was pretty small.

 

[SaberBob]

About six months ago I called into Catholic Answers Live on this very question. I’m sorry I can’t remember the name of the Priest who was with Sy that day.

I pointed out geologic deposits argue against a world wide flood and since Scripture often uses the word for particular land also for the whole earth, couldn’t the interpretation be more the former. The good Father disagreed.

Two weeks later I’m reading Scott Hahn’s textbook on Scripture and he certainly believes it could mean just a big but local area that was effected.

 

[Prodigal1984]

The interesting thing about the flood, which is spoken about not only in Genesis but also the Epic of Gilgamesh which is from ancient Mesopotamia, which would also be Middle Eastern. It gets weird though when you realize cultures from eastern Asia and South America also had flood narratives. It doesn’t make sense since these people had no contact. It seems the flood narrative may have some definitive historical context.
Why wasn’t the Arc found? I don’t know, when was the flood according to Genesis, like 4,000 B.C.? The chances something would survive 6,000 years are slim unless it was in extremely dry or cold conditions, and even then it probably would be barely recognizable as a boat. Some say the Arc is somewhere in modern day Turkey.

 

[Guest1]

Question:

How did the polar bears and penguins reach Noah's ark?

Answer:​

That’s a good question. The answer depends on what actually happened in history.

The Catholic Church does not prohibit interpretations of Genesis 6-8 that include a worldwide flood, but neither does the Church require there to be a worldwide flood in all interpretations of these passages. Instead, according to Pope Pius XII, “in simple and metaphorical language adapted to the mentality of a people but little cultured,” the first eleven chapters of Genesis “both state the principal truths which are fundamental for our salvation, and also give a popular description of the origin of the human race and the chosen people” ( Humani Generis 38).

Consequently, the flood could be understood as impacting the entire world, or possibly a large region of the world. If it did impact the entire world, animals in distant regions would likely have been miraculously transported to the ark.

On the other hand, if the flood was more regional, a view which has gained increasing traction in recent centuries because of scientific findings, then all the animals of the world would not have been destroyed, and thus polar bears and penguins would not have been affected.

For more on this topic, please see this article in Catholic Answer Magazine Online .

Two Views of the Flood | Catholic Answers Q&A

 

[thistle]

The flood was worldwide.

That is not Church teaching. We are free to believe it was global or regional.

 

[TK421]

CarmeliteKnight:

The flood was worldwide. It was God’s way of baptizing the entire world and washing it from the sins of the corrupt flesh.

I have never heard that interpretation as Catholic teaching.

It’s taken directly from the New Testament letters.

 

[TARRAT]

This article is very helpful in explaining the flood to Catholic friends who claim that there is irrefuteable proof that the flood was world wide. They use their trip to the arc as their proof.

 

[TARRAT]

Can you give us that proof?

 

[TARRAT]

I want to clear something up. My original post was because I had a discussion with a Catholic couple who defended vehemently the fact that the flood was universal. They wouldn’t listen because the “Arc” that they had visited said that the flood was worldwide. I came here is hopes that somebody would give me the reasoned Catholic response that I didn’t have at my finger tips. I don’t suppose that they will believe the Catholic reasoning that I will show them from what I learned here.

 

[thistle]

My original post was because I had a discussion with a Catholic couple who defended vehemently the fact that the flood was universal.

They are allowed to believe it was global but it is simply not a Church teaching.

 

[Mishakel]

Proof for a world wide flood are the amount of fossils found on a global scale. What happens to animals that die today? Will we find their bones 100, 300, or 4000 years from now?? The answer is no. Why? Because animals and the earth itself turn the bones into dust.

Why is there a massive collection of fossils found worldwide? The only possible way is things to be buried incredibly quickly. There’s no other way.

Jesus certainly believed in Noah and the flood. People have been force fed the notion that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago because the religion of evolution has time itself as its God. The dinosaurs along with anything not in the arc died during the flood of Noah.

The earth’s environment was vastly different before the flood which allowed plants and animals to be much larger than today as well as allowing much longer life spans.

One poster in this thread already stated a worldwide flood isn’t physically possible. What about turning water to wine? What about walking on water? What about causing the blind to see or the cripple to walk? What about a man being filled with the Holy Spirit allowing them to speak all languages? What about raising yourself from the dead 3 days after you died?

Silly mankind, all things are possible to the almighty God of Heaven. Oh ye of little faith.

 

[Wesrock]

CarmeliteKnight:

The flood was worldwide. It was God’s way of baptizing the entire world and washing it from the sins of the corrupt flesh.

I have never heard that interpretation as Catholic teaching. It was always taught as punishment and nothing else. And by the way, a worldwide flood was not possible as discussed ad nauseum on these forums.

Not in regards to local or flood or literal or allegory, but…

1 Peter 3: 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

 

[Wesrock]

I want to clear something up. My original post was because I had a discussion with a Catholic couple who defended vehemently the fact that the flood was universal. They wouldn’t listen because the “Arc” that they had visited said that the flood was worldwide. I came here is hopes that somebody would give me the reasoned Catholic response that I didn’t have at my finger tips. I don’t suppose that they will believe the Catholic reasoning that I will show them from what I learned here.

Catholics aren’t required to believe as an article of faith in a worldwide flood. Some do believe it in that way.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

All truth leads to God, this includes scientific truth.

The case of a worldwide flood is not a case where we lack evidence. It is a case where there is a lot of evidence that directly and unambiguously refutes it. Its not something that could be interpreted one way by one geologist and another way by a different geologist. When looking at geological strata world wide there is only one conclusion when it comes to this question. In this case, science has it right. But the more important thing is, the inspired text needs to be understood in the context of the time lived and the knowledge they had of what consisted of the known world. They were telling the truth when they said the world flooded, but their known world was much smaller. That’s why people like Scott Hahn correctly say that this was a large local flood. And that is a perfectly orthodox opinion to have.

 

[SaberBob]

Mishakel,

Your referring to the world wide deposition of fossils only proves how thoroughly you and other young earth creationists missunderstand and missuse the evidence.

Example, creationists claim why dinosaurs are lower down in the deposits is because they were supposedly sluggish and sooner to be drowned and mud covered. But dinosaurs of the Cretaceous period alone were highly developed, very mobile critters. There is no reason why a velociraptor or T-Rex should not been found on top of mamouths and giant sloths.

Creationists will all claim that the earth and the universe was created with the evidence of prior development because it’s necessary for the earth to be what it is needed for us-- ditto Adam be created as an adult man with evidence of prior development from infancy. However, if we were able to look at Adam’s body and see a healed bullet wound, either God is a massive deceiver OR that shows this guy has “history”. The Earth has lots of history, including the Chixilub impact event, the “bullet” which pushed the dinosaurs and 75% of then current life into extinction, paving the way for mammalian dominance, including humans.

Radioactive dating conclusivly shows Chixilub was c. 66 million years ago, the same consistent science which allows us to reliably build nuclear plants and weapons.

 

[TARRAT]

They were telling the truth when they said the world flooded, but their known world was much smaller. That’s why people like Scott Hahn correctly say that this was a large local flood. And that is a perfectly orthodox opinion to have.

 

[TK421]

Can you give us that proof?

??? It’s in the New Testament… the author talks about it. I think it was in 3rd Peter if I remember correctly but maybe it was another book; the fact that the flood was a symbol of baptism. I don’t feel like googling it but it should take 30 seconds or something.

It’s not about whether it was local or global. Of course it wasn’t global. That’s perfectly obvious.

The Torah isn’t the only set of ancient texts that talk about a massive historic flood, but in Genesis it is written by somebody who is giving prophecy, albeit perhaps unwittingly. The flood is prophetic of baptism, and baptism would indeed cover the entire world as Christianity became and continues to become a global faith existing throughout the world, as Jesus said it would.

Hopefully this makes sense. Peace.