The Force Awakens (Contains open spoilers!)

[jediliz]

(Devil’s Advocate Post) Ah but the lightsaber isn’t Luke’s and no one in the movie identifies it as HIS. Only that he had it for some time as an heirloom before he built his own according to his own preferences. It’s actually Anakin’s. It makes perfect sense that it can call Luke’s niece just as strongly as Luke’s daughter if what it’s **really **calling out to is Anakin’s granddaughter. Kylo Ren is so beholden to the worst of his grandfather. Maybe Rey is being called by the best.

Perhaps you need to rewatch the OT and see how it was given to him, being told it was his father’s. It was his until it was lost on Bespin.

As for the falcon calling to her…she called it trash just like Luke did “what a piece of junk!”

Luke does not have to take a vow of celibacy. Jedi are not priests.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

That is a dad who has neglected his responsibility as a parent…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

 

[tvknight415]

Came up with an insight on how Rey could be a younger sister to Ben/Kylo. What if reports of all the other Jedi students dying wasnt “entirely accurate”. If Rey had some basic training and was found to have lived, Luke may have reported her dead as well, then did the secret stash on Jakku (with some sort of memory block), He gave the missing piece of the map to Lor to give to her when she was old enough, but events in the galaxy necessitated it get to the Resistance sooner, so he contacted them. R2 may have been given a specific date to end hibernation and reveal the map and Reys existence. But if Han and Leia thought her long dead, she wouldnt have necessarily come up in the conversation during the events of the movie. And Kylo couldnt penetrate the block, so all he knows is shes someone strong in the force.

And now, the sole survivor has returned to Luke to fulfill that plan. Puts the look on his face at the end of the movie in perspective - his neice still lives, shes returned, and he senses shes unlocked more of the force. Oh, and she brought dad’s lightsaber back too.

 

[Kit15]

Perhaps you need to rewatch the OT and see how it was given to him, being told it was his father’s. It was his until it was lost on Bespin.

That doesn’t override my point. Jedi traditionally build their own sabers. Anakin built it. Luke inherited it but eventually built his own. I don’t think it’s an accident that the handle design resembles Obi-Wan’s saber more than his father’s. Looks like he was ready to part with it completely after Bespin.

It seems in TFA it is treated as Anakin’s. It’s been in Maz’s posession all these years. She identifies it as Anakin’s passed down to his decedents, including (in all probability) Rey. But was only Luke’s lightsaber as much as it is currently Rey’s - no more and no less.

Not So Devil’s Advocate Post - I don’t exactly see why having Leia as a parent potentially makes a child weaker in the Force than a child of Luke. Leia is not weaker than Luke. Leia is untrained, just as Luke was at one point. Leia is strong enough in the Force that SHE, not Luke, was Yoda’s last hope for the galaxy. Just imagine if both her father AND her brother were embracing the Dark Side and he *still *had faith that she could save them all. Luke *includes *her when he talks about the Force being strong in his family.

I’m still holding out hope that Luke has taught his sister a few tricks in the past 30 years. That was always teased in the novels but sadly, never fully realized (I haven’t read NJO or beyond). Leia doesn’t appear to have any desire to be a Jedi but she could still be an exceptional Force user without being a warrior. She didn’t have enough screen time to show off such abilities in a spectacular way. But at least we saw that she still has her ability to remotely sense others and it has extended beyond sensing her twin brother.

 

[Robyn_p]

Saw it today. Liked it a lot. Might be my second favorite Star Wars now. It’s tied with ROTJ in my mind.

My only disappointment really was the music. Not that it was bad, it definitely felt Star Warsy, but…I was hoping for at least one memorable new song. This is John Williams! I’ve never seen a movie scored by him where I didn’t walk out of the theater humming. Even the prequels - for all their flaws - had songs I could remember. There really wasn’t any song in this movie that struck me. (besides the old ones we’ve heard before obviously) I don’t know, I suppose he is pretty old now. Maybe he’s out of material.

But other than that, this movie lived up to my expectations. I’ll most likely see it again.

 

[MrZoom]

Saw it today. Liked it a lot. Might be my second favorite Star Wars now. It’s tied with ROTJ in my mind.

My only disappointment really was the music. Not that it was bad, it definitely felt Star Warsy, but…I was hoping for at least one memorable new song. This is John Williams! I’ve never seen a movie scored by him where I didn’t walk out of the theater humming. Even the prequels - for all their flaws - had songs I could remember. There really wasn’t any song in this movie that struck me. (besides the old ones we’ve heard before obviously) I don’t know, I suppose he is pretty old now. Maybe he’s out of material.

But other than that, this movie lived up to my expectations. I’ll most likely see it again.

John Williams is 83 (will be 84 in Feb). I’d say we’re blessed to still have him around to do the new Star Wars movies.

The first spinoff movie, Rogue One, which is coming next December, will not be scored by Williams. Alexandre Desplat will handle the music composition duties for that one.

 

[Robyn_p]

John Williams is 83 (will be 84 in Feb). I’d say we’re blessed to still have him around to do the new Star Wars movies.

Yes we are. I am still glad he did the movie, no doubt about it. It’s not Star Wars without him, and the score itself is not bad at all. I was just a little surprised that there wasn’t a more…rousing and memorable new song. But honestly it’s kind of hard to top what he’s already done so I don’t really blame him for that.

The first spinoff movie, Rogue One, which is coming next December, will not be scored by Williams. Alexandre Desplat will handle the music composition duties for that one.

I don’t envy him. I would hate to have to fill Williams shoes.

I wonder if Wiiliams is going to do VIII and IX or if he’ll hand the reins over to this new guy?(depending on how he does I suppose) By the time IX comes out he’ll be 88. If he’s still alive, I doubt he’ll still be composing. But who knows.

Slightly off-topic, but not really:

I don’t know how I feel about these spin-off movies honestly. I’ll give them a chance, but so far what they have planned isn’t thrilling me. I don’t want more movies set in the OT time period, which is all they have in production right now. Do something in this new period or take us back into the Old Republic. Something new we haven’t seen yet.

It worked for the Force Awakens to almost be a remake of a New Hope because it’s the first Star Wars film in over a decade and they needed to recapture the magic, but I hope they don’t just keep doing more of the same.

 

[mafh]

Lor San Tekka. He is watching over Rey similar to they way Obi Wan Kenobi was watching over Luke in Ep IV.

Really really dumb question, but I’ve encountered lots of people with all this detailed knowledge that couldn’t possibly have been gleaned from the movie. How do you guys know all this stuff? Is there some sort of document that accompanies the movie or something?

 

[Dandelion_Wine]

Saw is Sunday. Really enjoyed it. Mighta shed a tear several times.

Overall I enjoyed it. I liked the ease with which the characters dealt with one another. The humor didn’t seem forced. Some of it seemed quite natural. When Ren meets Poe and there’s this awkward silence and Poe says “I’m not sure who’s suppose to speak first”. Brilliant.

I like that many of the scene weren’t so packed full of **** that there was no way to take it all in.

I’ll definitely see it several more times in the theater.

I saw it in 3D. That was a nice touch but don’t know if I’ll pay extra to see it in 3D again. The scene with the Star Destroyer was only there for 3D and that was pretty cool.

There were a couple things that bothered me.

• as someone else mentioned, no memorable song. I didn’t realize Williams was as old as he is. Watching the credits it was conducted by him and someone else and below that there was a credit for guest conductor. I wondered what that might be about.
  -Luke, in speaking to and about Vader would say “I know there’s good in him”. In this movie suddenly it was about ‘good’, it was about ‘light’.
  -Han and Leia, in talking about their son, it was bring him home. Not, ‘tell him I love him’.

Before the scene with Han’s death, I had the thought of ‘how are Leia & Han going to die’. So while surprised, I wasn’t caught completely flat footed. It looks like the next one is going to revolve around Luke which surprises me. I wonder how they’ll phase him and Leia out.

My wife’s biggest rant, and I can’t say I disagree, was that much of the story was about the map to find Luke Skywalker. Who made the map? Luke? “I’m going to disappear but if someone wants to go on a boondongle, I’ll hide this map…”

Afterwards we had all speculated that Rey was Luke’s daughter. My wife made us all laugh because in regards to the mother she said “he’s Luke Skywalker - who wouldn’t have wanted to have sex with him”.

And I could’ve swore that when Rey was having all those flashes when she touched the lightsaber, when she was a little girl and being brought to where she was, that it was Ren holding her hand. Everyone else said it was just a hand and no face.

 

[twf]

MAJOR MAJOR SPOILER

Also, it is just really hard to believe that Kylo Ren would just kill Han Solo like that. Yeah, I know he is on the dark side and can’t control it but I didn’t think this plot point was fleshed out very well–his hatred towards his father.

The novelization makes his motivation more clear. Snoke reminds him that Vader failed in a final moment of weakness and thus the Empire fell…Vader gave into the light for one final moment and saved his son. This was the old Empire’s undoing. Snoke inspires Ren not to make his grandfather’s mistake…so Ren kills his father to ensure there is no ongoing temptation to give into the light and be reunited with family.
That was my interpretation.

 

[Robyn_p]

The novelization makes his motivation more clear. Snoke reminds him that Vader failed in a final moment of weakness and thus the Empire fell…Vader gave into the light for one final moment and saved his son. This was the old Empire’s undoing. Snoke inspires Ren not to make his grandfather’s mistake…so Ren kills his father to ensure there is no ongoing temptation to give into the light and be reunited with family.
That was my interpretation.

That’s how I interpreted it also, and I haven’t read the book. I do remember in the movie Snoke saying something to Ren about a final test involving Han. I knew right then he was going to have to kill him. I figured he was going to do that to complete his fall.

 

[MugenOne]

The Vatican’s newspaper pans Star Wars: The Force Awakens for having insufficiently evil villains

Actually, the paper complains that the villains aren’t evil enough.

According to L’Osservatore Romano, the movie “fails most spectacularly in its representation of evil.” They complain that Kylo Ren doesn’t match the evil of Darth Vader and that Supreme Leader Snoke is “the clumsiest and tackiest result you can obtain from computer graphics.”

geek.com/news/the-vaticans-newspaper-pans-star-wars-the-force-awakens-for-having-insufficiently-evil-villains-1642757/

Flaw, insufficient, or not evil enough, I am still planning to see the movie this week.

 

[Robyn_p]

The Vatican’s newspaper pans Star Wars: The Force Awakens for having insufficiently evil villains

Actually, the paper complains that the villains aren’t evil enough.

According to L’Osservatore Romano, the movie “fails most spectacularly in its representation of evil.” They complain that Kylo Ren doesn’t match the evil of Darth Vader and that Supreme Leader Snoke is “the clumsiest and tackiest result you can obtain from computer graphics.”

geek.com/news/the-vaticans-newspaper-pans-star-wars-the-force-awakens-for-having-insufficiently-evil-villains-1642757/

Flaw, insufficient, or not evil enough, I am still planning to see the movie this week.

Really? Not evil? Huh. I wonder why they said that? I felt it was almost the opposite. The First Order kills more innocents just in this movie than the Empire did in all three. Even Kylo felt more unstable and psychotically evil than Vader.

Snoke was pretty disappointing though, I admit. But he was definitely evil.

 

[jediliz]

John Williams is 83 (will be 84 in Feb). I’d say we’re blessed to still have him around to do the new Star Wars movies.

The first spinoff movie, Rogue One, which is coming next December, will not be scored by Williams. Alexandre Desplat will handle the music composition duties for that one.

Rogue one will be about stealing the death star plans. This was already in the star wars radio drama from post 1977 movie, but i guess they want to do it differently.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

The thing I like most about Kylo Ren is how angry and unstable he is. Vader would just quietly force choke someone to death when he got angry. Ren carves the place up.

As far as Rey goes, I thought it was a given that she was Luke’s daughter. When Maz Kannata tells her the lightsaber was Luke’s and his father’s and now it calls to her, that seemed pretty obvious. Even more obvious was the first trailer, “The force is strong in my family. I have it. My father had it. My sister has it. You have it.” Yes, he could say the same to a niece, but that wouldn’t adequately explain the comment about the lightsaber (or Maz telling her to go to Luke), and if she were Han & Leia’s daughter, you’d think at least the force-strong Leia would have sensed it.

As far as Finn goes, I think there’s more to him than first meets the eye. On Jakku, during the initial attack on the village, he’s going along just fine like an obedient Stormtrooper would. It’s not until that other Stormtrooper touches his face (similar to how Ren would touch Poe shortly thereafter), that he kind of snaps away from it and then gains his individuality. My initial thought was that the Stormtrooper who left the bloody handprint on his helmet somehow used the Force to awaken Finn. Every time I’ve seen it since, I’ve gotten the same impression.

 

[Trident_H]

The thing I like most about Kylo Ren is how angry and unstable he is. Vader would just quietly force choke someone to death when he got angry. Ren carves the place up.

Yeah. I liked that bit. Really a lot stronger show of how anger and the dark side are matched.

As far as Rey goes, I thought it was a given that she was Luke’s daughter. When Maz Kannata tells her the lightsaber was Luke’s and his father’s and now it calls to her, that seemed pretty obvious. Even more obvious was the first trailer, “The force is strong in my family. I have it. My father had it. My sister has it. You have it.” Yes, he could say the same to a niece, but that wouldn’t adequately explain the comment about the lightsaber (or Maz telling her to go to Luke), and if she were Han & Leia’s daughter, you’d think at least the force-strong Leia would have sensed it.

Maybe. Probably. I mean it explains Luke taking a hike too. He’s trying to draw the chase away from his daughter. That’s why he dumped her on a desert planet. Just like he was dumped once. Figured it worked for him so why not do a repeat hey?

As far as Finn goes, I think there’s more to him than first meets the eye. On Jakku, during the initial attack on the village, he’s going along just fine like an obedient Stormtrooper would. It’s not until that other Stormtrooper touches his face (similar to how Ren would touch Poe shortly thereafter), that he kind of snaps away from it and then gains his individuality. My initial thought was that the Stormtrooper who left the bloody handprint on his helmet somehow used the Force to awaken Finn. Every time I’ve seen it since, I’ve gotten the same impression.

Finn bugs me though. I mean he suddenly gets this conscience. Suddenly he’s a person. Not just a rank and file anymore. But instead of trying to go and save the guys you’d think he’d care more about. Instead of trying to round up a bunch of bunk-mates or other buddies he clearly must have made during his time of being mixed in with them for so long. Well he just bolts. Then when he meets them again in battle he never even hesitates. He doesn’t try to talk to any of them. Or try to aim for the legs or anything. It’s like he goes from this guy we’re supposed to believe’s got this heart of gold to a totally uncaring killer. And I’m supposed to click with that?

I don’t know. I mean I wish the first show had been about his problem conscience making him try to spin an inner group to fall out with the main inside the Stormtrooper stronghold. Because the thing about making us care about 1 Stormtrooper is that it makes a guy wonder why he doesn’t get to care about any of the other ones. I mean don’t they all have the same child-abduction-forced-soldier thing going on? So what would have been pretty cool would to have had some conflict in seeing things from their POV. And getting the pull from Finn to wrestle it out.

Then when the Rebels were stuck with a way to defeat the DeathPlanetStarEatingThing. Well the 5th columnists could have suddenly come to action. And lowered the shields. And bolted.

What a fun join up that would have been hey? To suddenly have flooded the sky with friendly Tie Fighters on their way out? Mix up the reason the shield went down a whole lot better too.

I don’t know. My :twocents:. And I guess a bit of too. Cause man. Now I’m pretty hungry.

Peace guys.

-Trident

 

[mafh]

Finn bugs me though. I mean he suddenly gets this conscience. Suddenly he’s a person. Not just a rank and file anymore. But instead of trying to go and save the guys you’d think he’d care more about. Instead of trying to round up a bunch of bunk-mates or other buddies he clearly must have made during his time of being mixed in with them for so long. Well he just bolts.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but my impression was that the Stormtrooper who died and put the blood handprint on Finn’s helmet was his buddy. My interpretation as I was watching the film was that it was this, plus the command to kill innocents, that triggered Finn’s crisis. It was his first time in battle.

Also, in later scenes, other Stormtroopers refer to him as a ‘traitor’, so maybe he already knew that any other trooper buddies wouldn’t understand his choice.

 

[Trident_H]

Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but my impression was that the Stormtrooper who died and put the blood handprint on Finn’s helmet was his buddy. My interpretation as I was watching the film was that it was this, plus the command to kill innocents, that triggered Finn’s crisis. It was his first time in battle.

Also, in later scenes, other Stormtroopers refer to him as a ‘traitor’, so maybe he already knew that any other trooper buddies wouldn’t understand his choice.

I sort of figured it was a pal of his too. But that just made me really weirded out that he’d open up full blast on any others. I mean could he really only have one pal in that entire army? Only one guy he could relate to? While being totally callous to the rest?

But then I sort of wear my heart on my sleeve at the best of times. So maybe I’m just forgetting he was programmed to be a soldier man so didn’t have too much trouble killing targets carrying guns. Especially if he couldn’t really see their faces.

Sill. I’d have liked to have liked both sides so that this conflict really buzzed a lot more. I mean I’d have liked to have seen a handful of sides fighting for control of the Republic actually. Sort of a dance of different intentions. And factions. And conflicted feelings.

But then I guess it wouldn’t be a good vs evil easy watch then hey? I guess it would have become a bit of a mess.

Oh well. Just wish they’d not blown up the 3rd death star. Like in a row. Because now I think if the next show doesn’t have a new death star to blow up I won’t really understand what show I’ve gone to watch.

 

[mafh]

I sort of figured it was a pal of his too. But that just made me really weirded out that he’d open up full blast on any others. I mean could he really only have one pal in that entire army? Only one guy he could relate to? While being totally callous to the rest?

I think I see your point. The point of the Stormtropper costumes in the first trilogy was to dehumanize the enemy, so that the violence was sanitized and it felt more like the rebels were just putting automatons out of commission. With Finn, the director pulled the helmet off the Stormtroopers and humanized them, but the movie still wants to treat them as the mere cannon fodder they were before.