The Four Legged Bomb

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Alfie:
I stand corrected, I was wrong about the DNA. What the preacher did say was that the Jews need the ashes to purify themselves. In ancient times, the ashes of a red heifer were mixed with spring water to purify high priests before they entered the Temple. That is why they want the ashes. It just goes to show you how dangerous it is to go by oral tradition. Look how I misquoted the Dome of the Rock and the ashes for DNA. Oral tradition is bound to be misinterpreted at some point in time. That is why God gave us the written word (Bible).
That won’t work Alfie. It isn’t “oral tradition” to believe in things like the real presence in the Eucharist, (for instance), That’s in the New Testament and verifies by the writings of the early church. (Ignatius of Antioch)

What “oral Tradition” do you specifically have in mind then?
Pax tecum,
 
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Alfie:
I stand corrected, I was wrong about the DNA. What the preacher did say was that the Jews need the ashes to purify themselves. In ancient times, the ashes of a red heifer were mixed with spring water to purify high priests before they entered the Temple. That is why they want the ashes. It just goes to show you how dangerous it is to go by oral tradition. Look how I misquoted the Dome of the Rock and the ashes for DNA. Oral tradition is bound to be misinterpreted at some point in time. That is why God gave us the written word (Bible).
Alfie (and others who may be reading this), please do not misinterpret what I am about to say. I say this in the hope that you might gain some kind of understanding of Church traditions/Traditions, not to offend or attack you. First, your comparison of Church tradition/Tradition to what you originally posted (a self-proclaimed misquote) is like comparing apples to oranges. What you originally posted was not God inspired nor was it under the protection of the Holy Spirit. Can we agree on that? Good. Now, since I know ahead of time that you will not accept the Church’s traditions/Traditions for whatever reason(s), let’s look at the Bible itself. We both share the understanding that it is the inspired Word of God and is without error, do we not? As I understand your post (quoted above), you do not believe that “traditions” should be a part of God’s Church. Let’s see what the Bible says on the subject.
1 Cor 11:2 – “hold fast to traditions I handed on to you”
2 Thess 2:15 – “hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter”
2 Thess 3:6 – “shun those acting not according to tradition”
Jn 21:25 – not everything Jesus said and did was recorded (written) in scripture
Acts 20:35 – Paul records a saying of Jesus not found in the Gospels. Where did it come from if not past down orally?
2 Jn 12 – “Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink, but I hope to come to see you and talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete.”
3 Jn 13: “I have much to write to you, but I would rather not write with pen and ink; I hope to see you soon, and we will talk together face to face.”
Lk 1:1-4: “Since many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the events that have been fulfilled among us, just as those who were eyewitnesses from the beginning and ministers of the word have handed them down to us, I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew, to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may realize the certainty of the teachings you have received.” (The Gospel of Luke wasn’t written down until approx 80 AD, therefore until that time, it was passed down by oral tradition, as were the other books of the New Testament).
Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) doctrine would have you believe that only those things that the Bible mentions are true. However, the Bible itself tells us that Christ gave the Church divine authority to govern in His name (Mt 16:13-20, Mt18:18 and Lk 10:16). The founding fathers of the United States wrote the Constitution, they then placed the Supreme Court in a position to oversee, protect, and interrupt it so that individuals wouldn’t do so on whims. They knew, just as Christ knew, that such an important document could not be left for each individual to interrupt on their own. To do so, would encourage chaos and misunderstanding, just as it has for the last 500 years since the reformation. Christ also told us that His Church would exist until the end of time (Mt 16:18, Mt 28:19-20 and Jn 14:16). As a side note here, if protestant faiths didn’t start to spring up until the 16th century, wouldn’t Christ have said something more along the lines of, “1,500 years from now, My Church will be founded and exist until the end of time. Until then, you’re on your own.” I think not. So, to sum up what I am trying to convey here, the Church was given Her authority by God. The Church holds dear Her Sacred Traditions because they too come from God. The Bible itself supports Sacred Tradition. Therefore, we as Catholics know with certainty that these Traditions are protected by Him and are without error. This cannot be said about the misquote in your original post. Why is it that so many find it so hard to believe that if the Holy Spirit can protect the Gospels and other books of the New Testament for decades prior to their being written down, that He is unable to protect other Sacred Traditions throughout millenniums and beyond? The Church doesn’t limit the powers of God like this. We know and understand that He can and does do this very thing even today.
 
I’m not sure how old you are, but when I was in my late teens in the 1970’s I read a good bit of this sort of thing. We were all going to be destroyed in the 1980’s by a nuclear war, China was assembling a 200,000,000-man army to invade Israel, and so on. The words change a little, but the song remains the same.
The question for us is, if all these things are going to happen, how should we live our lives? Here are my answers:
(1) We should go to church and worship God.
(2) We should try to stay away from sins and wickedness.
(3) We should live our lives serenely, confident in the fact that God has everything under control.
Now my next question: if everything your pastor said was false, and the events in Revelation are symbolic descriptions of the situation in the first century, how should we live our lives? Here are my answers:
(1) We should go to church and worship God.
(2) We should try to stay away from sins and wickedness.
(3) We should live our lives serenely, confident in the fact that God has everything under control.
Excellent post! A great way to LIVE YOUR FAITH!

Why worry about the end times? What do you think you are going to do about it?
 
You should warn your pastor about the black gov’t helicopters that overfly his church…
 
Alfie, No offense, but I think you need a different preacher. One who preaches the Word of God, not his own prophesies.
 
tdandh26 said:
:rotfl: :rotfl: Whew man, where did he get that stuff from. I cant stop laughing, so Muslims believe that Jesus is coming back :rotfl: Wow dont I wish they believed that, even if it was an erroneous understanding it would be a lot easier to convert them.

Muslims do believe that Jesus is coming back. Whether they think He will destroy Israel I don’t know–I suspect that different Muslims would have different views on that. But they do believe that He will come back, convert the world to Islam, and then die (they don’t think He ever died in the first place). That at least is how I understand it. I’m not sure what level of teaching this is–whether it’s found in the Qur’an, the Hadith, or later traditions. It may be legend more than doctrine.

Edwin
 
The funny thing is it isn’t the Jews who are buying stuff for the rebuilt temple but dispensationalists. A couple of co workers are all proud of the fact that their church has purchased **** for the rebuilt temple.

Under their theology something just smacks wrong of a group that wishes to rebuild the temple, buys stuff for it, in order to give the antichrist his platform to ascend and call himself God.

This doesn’t even include the money they pump into Isreal to get the Palestinians out so Isreal can have all the land supposedly to bring about the second coming.

Somehow it doesn’t seem quite christian to me to go work for the antichrist and help him out. Personally I think it is worship of the antichrist and not God. But that’s just me.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
The Left Behind series is pretty amusing when you think about it. You know who the antichrist is, but instead of popping a cap in his butt you go work for him instead. :rolleyes:

Now that’s rational thinking. 👍

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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