The FSSP and the OF

[Catholic4Jesus]

Even though the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter’s main charism is celebrating the Mass and Sacraments according to 1962 textbooks of Bl. John XXIII, do the FSSP priests ever say the OF mass at times?

 

[Chatter163]

As a rule, no. There have been some isolated instances of it (which caused a bit of an internal controversy within the Fraternity back in the late 1990s), and while their priests, like all Latin rite priests, certainly have the canonical right to celebrate the OF, the formation and function of the Fraternity is to celebrate the EF, and most of their priests will thus do only that.

 

[YoungTradCath]

To add to Chatter’s post, the only instance I can think of them doing it nowadays is when requested to concelebrate with the local bishop, for example, or when priests are in Rome and they are requested to concelebrate with the Pope. They participate in the OF on such occasions.

 

[Mike30]

The Clergy of the FSSP have to accept the validity of the Ordinary Form AND if told to celebrate it must do so. While they were established to celebrate the Extraordinary Form, under current policy they cannot refuse anorder to celebrate an Ordinary Form Mass if instructed to do so.

Incidentally, that is one of the conditions that is seldom ife ever mentioned when referring to the situation with the SSPX as they would have fallen under the same rule and been required to celebrate the Ordinary Form if told to do so…

 

[Catholic4Jesus]

The Clergy of the FSSP have to accept the validity of the Ordinary Form AND if told to celebrate it must do so. While they were established to celebrate the Extraordinary Form, under current policy they cannot refuse anorder to celebrate an Ordinary Form Mass if instructed to do so.

Incidentally, that is one of the conditions that is seldom ife ever mentioned when referring to the situation with the SSPX as they would have fallen under the same rule and been required to celebrate the Ordinary Form if told to do so…

That’s one of the main reasons why the SSPX is having a hard time on coming to terms on returning to Rome.

 

[Catholic4Jesus]

To add to Chatter’s post, the only instance I can think of them doing it nowadays is when requested to concelebrate with the local bishop, for example, or when priests are in Rome and they are requested to concelebrate with the Pope. They participate in the OF on such occasions.

I figured so.

 

[Chatter163]

The Clergy of the FSSP have to accept the validity of the Ordinary Form AND if told to celebrate it must do so. While they were established to celebrate the Extraordinary Form, under current policy they cannot refuse anorder to celebrate an Ordinary Form Mass if instructed to do so.

Incidentally, that is one of the conditions that is seldom ife ever mentioned when referring to the situation with the SSPX as they would have fallen under the same rule and been required to celebrate the Ordinary Form if told to do so…

This is incorrect. No one, including a bishop can “tell” an FSSP priest that he must celebrate an OF Mass. The 1411/99 protocol said that the FSSP cannot forbid its priests to celebrate an OF Mass, not that someone else can force them to do so.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Local bishops can’t make FSSP priests celebrate the OF. If there is some dire need, I imagine a bishop could ask FSSP priests to do so for the benefit of his parishes, but he can’t force them to do it–although I imagine they’d accept. The FSSP exists for the specific reasons of serving the pastoral needs of EF communities and for the salvation of their priests’ own souls, not to be mandatory fill-ins when the local pastor is on vacation. Conceivably, the only person who could force FSSP priests to celebrate the OF is the Pope, since they are of Pontifical Right.

 

[PacoG]

There is an FSSP priest in the Hospital Ministry of our Diocese.

He has “weekend duty” at a local parish and its two rural mission churches. He says the OF Mass at those three churches.

 

[JM3]

This is incorrect. No one, including a bishop can “tell” an FSSP priest that he must celebrate an OF Mass. The 1411/99 protocol said that the FSSP cannot forbid its priests to celebrate an OF Mass, not that someone else can force them to do so.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi_en.html

Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books. The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness.

In conclusion, dear Brothers, I very much wish to stress that these new norms do not in any way lessen your own authority and responsibility, either for the liturgy or for the pastoral care of your faithful. Each Bishop, in fact, is the moderator of the liturgy in his own Diocese (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, 22: “Sacrae Liturgiae moderatio ab Ecclesiae auctoritate unice pendet quae quidem est apud Apostolicam Sedem et, ad normam iuris, apud Episcopum”).

Nothing is taken away, then, from the authority of the Bishop, whose role remains that of being watchful that all is done in peace and serenity. Should some problem arise which the parish priest cannot resolve, the local Ordinary will always be able to intervene, in full harmony, however, with all that has been laid down by the new norms of the Motu Proprio.

 

[ServusMariae90]

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi_en.html

The important part of that quote is “as a matter of principle.” This would mean that they refuse to celebrate it because they think it is invalid or illicit. And the FSSP, like other Ecclesia Dei institutes, have the traditional Mass as one of the primary reasons for their existence. There have been instances of FSSP priests celebrated the OF, but most do not. Of the one’s that I know who have celebrated it, they have left the fraternity. The other FSSP priests that I know, would never celebrate the OF except out of obedience.

 

[JM3]

The important part of that quote is “as a matter of principle.” This would mean that they refuse to celebrate it because they think it is invalid or illicit. And the FSSP, like other Ecclesia Dei institutes, have the traditional Mass as one of the primary reasons for their existence. There have been instances of FSSP priests celebrated the OF, but most do not. Of the one’s that I know who have celebrated it, they have left the fraternity. The other FSSP priests that I know, would never celebrate the OF except out of obedience.

I think you point of view is a bit narrow. Saying something like “our charism is the EF, so we will not say the OF” is also a “matter of principle”, but that is only my opinion. What matters is the intention of the Holy Father and how he interprets it. How everyone else sees it is irrelevant.

 

[ServusMariae90]

I think you point of view is a bit narrow. Saying something like “our charism is the EF, so we will not say the OF” is also a “matter of principle”, but that is only my opinion. What matters is the intention of the Holy Father and how he interprets it. How everyone else sees it is irrelevant.

I would say it is somewhat analogous to a teaching order of sisters. Are the opposed in principle to do hospital work? Their constitutions may limit them to such work or it just may be absent in their history. Is it a matter of principle that they would refuse to do hospital work? No. It is just foreign to the mission of their community. You could look at “matter of principle” in two ways:

1.) Not celebrating the ordinary form is the principle (e.g. I will not celebrate the Ordinary Form, therefore I will celebrate the Extraordinary Form.)

2.) Having some other principle that would, in general, exclude celebrating the Ordinary Form (e.g. our charism is the Extraordinary Form, so therefore we will focus on the Extraordinary form and by practical consequences we do not celebrate the Ordinary Form. We are not forbidden to celebrate the OF, but our parochial/pastoral circumstances usually give us no reason to.)

It would seem that the Holy Father’s letter is aiming at 1 above. One cannot celebrate refuse to celebrate the Ordinary Form just because it is the Ordinary Form. Number 2 only excludes celebrating the ordinary form because the mission is the extraordinary form, and they are in Extraordinary Form only parishes.

On a more experiential note, the FSSP priests I know do not celebrate the OF. It’s not that the would not, but rather, it’s that there is no reason for them to. They are not taught it in the seminary either.

 

[larsont7]

Another consideration is that most priests in the FSSP have never been trained to say the OF, and until there is grave reason for them to do so, I don’t see many of them taking time to learn it. The main reason the OLG Seminary is overflowing is because of the charism to exclusively say the EF. If that charism changes, most seminarians will just go to their local diocesan seminaries instead of travelling to the countryside in Denton, NE.

 

[TimothyH]

This is incorrect. No one, including a bishop can “tell” an FSSP priest that he must celebrate an OF Mass. The 1411/99 protocol said that the FSSP cannot forbid its priests to celebrate an OF Mass, not that someone else can force them to do so.

Yes they can. The Bishop can tell an FSSP priest to celebrate the OF. The Bishop has that right under canon law.

The FSSP is a Society of Apostolic Life. Canon law clearly states that members of Societies of Apostolic life are subject to the Bishop in matters of public worship and care of souls.

***Can. 738 §1 All members are subject to their own Moderators in matters concerning the internal life and discipline of the society, in accordance with the constitutions.

§2 They are also subject to the diocesan Bishop in matters concerning public worship, the care of souls** and other works of the apostolate, with due regard to cann. 679 - 683. *

No protocol, nor the constitution of a Society of Apostolic life may contradict canon law. Many bishops respect the FSSP’s desire not to celebrate the OF but under Canon Law, the bishop has the right to ask them to do so. For a member of any Society of Apostolic life to fail to subject himself in matters of public worship to the bishop of the diocese who has granted him faculties would be a violation of Canon Law and open him up to disciplinary action.

Any claim that any document states that a member of a Society of Apostolic life has a right to refuse to say the Ordinary Form if the bishop who has granted him faculties tells him to do so is a misreading of the document. No such document would be approved by the Church because it would violate canon law.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

Local bishops can’t make FSSP priests celebrate the OF. If there is some dire need, I imagine a bishop could ask FSSP priests to do so for the benefit of his parishes, but he can’t force them to do it–although I imagine they’d accept. The FSSP exists for the specific reasons of serving the pastoral needs of EF communities and for the salvation of their priests’ own souls, not to be mandatory fill-ins when the local pastor is on vacation. Conceivably, the only person who could force FSSP priests to celebrate the OF is the Pope, since they are of Pontifical Right.

No, this is not correct.

***Can. 738 §1 All members are subject to their own Moderators in matters concerning the internal life and discipline of the society, in accordance with the constitutions.

§2 They are also subject to the diocesan Bishop in matters concerning public worship**, the care of souls and other works of the apostolate, with due regard to cann. 679 - 683. *

-Tim-

 

[Esrb99]

No, this is not correct.

***Can. 738 §1 All members are subject to their own Moderators in matters concerning the internal life and discipline of the society, in accordance with the constitutions.

§2 They are also subject to the diocesan Bishop in matters concerning public worship***, the care of souls and other works of the apostolate, with due regard to cann. 679 - 683.

-Tim-

What if FSSP Priests are not trained in Seminary to celebrate the OF?

 

[YoungTradCath]

No, this is not correct.

***Can. 738 §1 All members are subject to their own Moderators in matters concerning the internal life and discipline of the society, in accordance with the constitutions.

§2 They are also subject to the diocesan Bishop in matters concerning public worship***, the care of souls and other works of the apostolate, with due regard to cann. 679 - 683.

-Tim-

So you are arguing that bishops can force FSSP priests to celebrate the OF? How? Is a bishop going to invite them to his diocese then say, “You will celebrate the OF?” I doubt that is legally possible unless the Fraternity agrees to it.

 

[Mike30]

So you are arguing that bishops can force FSSP priests to celebrate the OF? How? Is a bishop going to invite them to his diocese then say, “You will celebrate the OF?” I doubt that is legally possible unless the Fraternity agrees to it.

Why would it not be legally possible? The Ordinary Form is by definition the normative Mass of the Latin Church. If a Bishop, for whatever reason decided Hey, I need a Priest to celebrate an Ordinary Form Mass at St. Such and such and the only Priests I have avaliable are FSSP. I’l just get one of them to do it.

Sounds legit to me and more than that I have been told by FSSP Priests in three Dioceses that they can be required to celebrate the Ordinary Form if the Bishop says to do so. Now I don’t think he could require them to celebrate only the Ordinary Form or even celebrate the Ordinary Form a majority of the time. But occasionally or on a semi regular basis, makes perfect sense to me. After all, the Bishop is the boss and you since hear so much about obedience when talking about the SSPX it would seem to me submission to discipline would also apply to everyone else including the FSSP…

 

[YoungTradCath]

Why would it not be legally possible? The Ordinary Form is by definition the normative Mass of the Latin Church. If a Bishop, for whatever reason decided Hey, I need a Priest to celebrate an Ordinary Form Mass at St. Such and such and the only Priests I have avaliable are FSSP. I’l just get one of them to do it.

Sounds legit to me and more than that I have been told by FSSP Priests in three Dioceses that they can be required to celebrate the Ordinary Form if the Bishop says to do so. Now I don’t think he could require them to celebrate only the Ordinary Form or even celebrate the Ordinary Form a majority of the time. But occasionally or on a semi regular basis, makes perfect sense to me. After all, the Bishop is the boss and you since hear so much about obedience when talking about the SSPX it would seem to me submission to discipline would also apply to everyone else including the FSSP…

Because:

The FSSP exists to provide pastoral care to people who desire the EF.
The FSSP typically works in two circumstances: either they are given a parish church of their own, or they have “missions” to established diocesan parishes.

No one can force a priest to celebrate any Mass ever, so my point is that a priest can certainly be asked to celebrate Mass in either form if needed, but he can’t be forced by the bishop of the place to celebrate at all. This, coupled with the fact that a bishop certainly cannot prohibit FSSP priests from celebrating the EF, is the body of reasoning that leads me to believe that a bishop can never absolutely compel a priest to celebrate the OF. Not that they wouldn’t if they were asked, but that they can’t be forced to do so.

This is very scary because I imagine some day someone will try to pull something where FSSP priests and others are bullied into doing something that is not part of their charism.