The future of Catholicism

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FraStefano

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In these days of uncertainty and confusion, where do we go for truth and direction? Priest contradicts priest, bishop contradicts bishop and pope contradicts pope. The Catechism appears changeble at will, the moral law is relative, the Catholic Church is one of the many “willed” religions.

Will there be a return by some to “sola scriptura” as during the times of the Reformation? Will each of us choose our own point of reference and authority as with religious sects? Will we just muddle on like the Anglicans / Espsicopalians / Presbyterians and become irrelavant, even to our own salvation? Will there be some intervention, such as the Council of Trent, to re-orientate ourselves? Or will we see some mighty movement of the Holy Spirit to bring us back?

I am interested what faithful Catholics think might happen? I personally have begun to look at Christianity in the first three Centuries for an interpretation of these times and a sign post for what might happen. Please note I am not intending to criticise the Pope or his governance of the Church - I am simply reading the times from where I sit.
 
I’m not seeing all these substantive changes in the Catechism you’re going on about. Re the death penalty, the alleged change to me just confirmed what I thought Catholic teaching on life always said. Regarding “eco sins”, I’ve been doing stuff to “save energy” since the Carter administration and picking up my trash since I was tiny and used to see the “Crying Indian” PSA on TV.

Priests and bishops having opinions don’t run my world. God gave us all a conscience which once we hit adulthood, we should be able to use to solve our own moral issues. Praying, going to Adoration, receiving the sacraments regularly keep us in grace and help us figure stuff out.

As for “what will happen”, the world will keep fumbling along till Christ returns, I reckon.
 
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FraStefano said:
In these days of uncertainty and confusion, where do we go for truth and direction? Priest contradicts priest, bishop contradicts bishop and pope contradicts pope. The Catechism appears changeble at will, the moral law is relative, the Catholic Church is one of the many “willed” religions.
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In these days where people have more access to information about Church teaching than any other time in history, it amazes me how few truly understand what they are reading.
FraStefano said:
I am interested what faithful Catholics think might happen?
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Faithful Catholics ignore bloggers and go about living their lives.
FraStefano said:
Please note I am not intending to criticise the Pope or his governance of the Church
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And yet…
 
FraStefano said:
I am interested what faithful Catholics think might happen?
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I don’t have a crystal ball so can’t make any speculative comments on the future. However, I have God’s word that his church will not have the gates of hell prevail against it. So I’ll stick to the Catholic Church, regardless of who is pope. At least with a pope I know which church IS Catholic.
 
vsedriver said:
So I’ll stick to the Catholic Church, regardless of who is pope. At least with a pope I know which church IS Catholic.
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This seems to me to be an important principle and marker - it requires faith.
 
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The Church will continue to be tested, chastised, and refined. She’ll grow in understanding of the light of the gospel, growing in love. She’ll be purer, maybe smaller. She already possesses the proper orientation-she just needs to increasingly conform to it. Sola Scriptura will never be an RCC doctrine. Study the catechism, which quotes Trent repeatedly incidentally; the Church knows the truth.
 
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CorydonMundi said:
Quit paying attention to the news. Listen to your priest and bishop.
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But what if your priest and bishop teaches a faith different from my priest and bishop? It seems these days that many are choosing parishes dependent on the teaching presented by the priest. The Lord himself teaches us to read the signs of the times, and Scripture and the Catechism both teach a great apostasy within the Church in the last days. Pleae note that I am not saying these are those times. In my isolated life, I am trying to assess where peopleare looking for certainty and truth, In your case … your priest and bishop,
 
I am very confident about the future of the Church. However what we all need to do is pray and spread the good news.

Lets not forget that Jesus has just been born and has arrived into the world to save us. As we are still in the Christmas season let us remind ourselves that Jesus came into the world in poverty to show us that being attracted to a materialistic life is wrong.

Let us pray for the church and those that have not heard the good news

God bless you
 
FraStefano said:
But what if your priest and bishop teaches a faith different from my priest and bishop?
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Well, it isn’t any different than the thousands of years that came before in the Church all the way back to the first centuries, when bishops split into two camps on Arianism, Nestorianism, and any other -ism.

What were people to do then? The best they could with what they knew.

You act as if this is something the Church has never encountered before.

This too shall pass.
 
I am in complete agreement with you.

I will say, however, that many in the Church really need to return to basics. I do think that’s happening with the younger priests and religious. Many churchmen over the years became more political than anything else and adopted aspects of “liberation theology” that Pope John Paul II condemned. In Latin America it was literally revolutionary. In the U.S. it was “liberation theology lite”, i.e., if you just vote for whoever says they care for the poor, your moral obligations are covered.

And many, many Catholics followed that lead because it was easy. But in truth unless we concentrate on our own personal morality, INCLUDING charity, all the political activism in the world will not bring us to salvation or even a worldly “morality”.

Will the Church shrink in numbers if there is a return to faithfulness? The Church is already shrinking in the U.S. and the rest of the first world, so it’s hard to think otherwise. But oftentimes people in the twilight of their lives return to the truth. So we can’t know.

I do think in twenty years at most, we’ll see most of the religious orders reduced to left-wing foundations and “think tanks”, with a handful of faithful ones new-started and with more recruits than they can handle. That’s already happening.

I believe (and hope) we’ll see a purgation of the bishops so that corrupt bishops like Weakland and McCarrick (and others) are no longer in the Church, poisoning it from the inside. We could say the same about some denizens of the Vatican.

When the Church “starts over” in that way, I think we’ll see a resurgence in the numbers. People desperately want to follow what’s good and true. But right now, there is confusion about what it is.
 
Those who want to mix politics with religion are the ones who cause 98 percent of the problem.
The future of Catholicism rests with the people.
Go to Mass, pray the Rosary, and read the Bible.
Go to confession and gain absolution from your sins.
 
1ke said:
You act as if this is something the Church has never encountered before.
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Friend, this is the crux of my question. In different ages, where a similar situation has existed, there have been different approaches. But these approaches affect our salvation. The Arians and Nestorians and Lutherans were heretics and placed the salvation of souls in jeopardy. With the Arian, there was lay and episcopal resistance and then a Council to resolve the confusion. After the reformation there was the counter-reformation and Trent. I am asking people to speculate, I know, but I am interested where they think we will travel.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I’m not seeing all these substantive changes in the Catechism you’re going on about. Re the death penalty, the alleged change to me just confirmed what I thought Catholic teaching on life always said. Regarding “eco sins”, I’ve been doing stuff to “save energy” since the Carter administration and picking up my trash since I was tiny and used to see the “Crying Indian” PSA on TV.

Priests and bishops having opinions don’t run my world. God gave us all a conscience which once we hit adulthood, we should be able to use to solve our own moral issues. Praying, going to Adoration, receiving the sacraments regularly keep us in grace and help us figure stuff out.
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Friend, it is a admirable position to not see a crisis when there may not be one, At times I do wonder if the crisis is all the invention of the Catholic blogs, fora and Catholic press. The secular media has no interest in these matters now so I can’t blame them. The problem is that many holy and lofty Churchmen now use the term crisis, so I feel I need to take note.

With regards conscience, the Lord through his Church teaches us only to rely on an informed conscience which accords with the teaching of the Church.

I read you as saying, but perhaps I am reading too much, that when there is confusion and lack of clarity from the offical organs of the Church we must act in accordance with our conscience . That appears a trustworthy position.
 
vsedriver said:
I don’t have a crystal ball so can’t make any speculative comments on the future. However, I have God’s word that his church will not have the gates of hell prevail against it. So I’ll stick to the Catholic Church, regardless of who is pope. At least with a pope I know which church IS Catholic.
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Well in 1409 you would have had three popes (each with their detractors and supporters) to choose from. 😇

https://amazingbibletimeline.com/blog/schism-three-popes-claim-vicarship-god-great-western/
 
If we reach a point where Catholic doctrine is really in question, then I believe another council would be called for. We are far from that point (in my opinion).
 
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CorydonMundi said:
Our role is to listen and obey the people in authority over us. Trust in Gods mercy if someone is steering you wrong.
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So I understand you correctly, dear friend…do we owe obedience to those empowered only where there is no contradiction to our understanding of the Teaching of Our Lord through his Church, or even if there is contradiction? My understanding of the Catholic Faith is that the former is applicable. Where obedience causes sin or rejection of a truth of the faith, it is not to be obeyed. I am given to understand that some abuse of both adults and children has been through the improper application of obedience.
 
As our Lord said in Matthew 16:18: “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it” There might be times when Church seems to be dying, but it’s just another phase.
 
1ke said:
But what if your priest and bishop teaches a faith different from my priest and bishop?
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Many are saying “no problem” - saying that trials have been here before, nothing new here, etc. etc. BUT - there will be a very real last day, and a last trial preceding it, and that trial will NOT be “like all the rest.” Jesus warned us:
Mat 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
Mat 24:22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
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Such intense purification of the elect will be like nothing before. Jesus warned:
Mat 24:15 "So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Mat 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;…
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What is the Abomination of Desolation in modern times? Is it literally a sacrilege to stand in the Holy Place of a restored Temple in historic Jerusalem, Israel? Does this prophecy point to the holy center of the People of God of the New Covenant - the center of the Catholic Faith in the Vatican? What “desolation” will come, for the faithful of the people to come, for whom Jesus warned and warns still?

How bad a sacrilege does it have to be, before God’s meaning of Abomination is satisfied? Before God will bring the “Holy Place” to desolation?

Jesus did not put these prophesies and dire warnings into a time capsule, with a note on it “Do not open before XXXX (date definite)!” He spoke to all having ears to hear, and eyes to watch for the signs of the times.

The world has never been as it is today. Never. Never have godless men had such destructive power, as to threaten global catastrophe and destruction. And we are not growing kinder and gentler, more compassionate and God-fearing by the generation - no, just the opposite. These are gravely serious matters, and gravely serious times.
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