The future of Catholicism

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IanM said:
Well in 1409 you would have had three popes (each with their detractors and supporters) to choose from.
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Unless you were a king, you would have had absolutely zero choice. Your king made his choice for you, and you had no choice but to comply with his decision.

The thing that is new is that for the first time ordinary people do actually have a choice, and they have the freedom to express their opinions.and plenty of outlets in which to do so, such as this forum, for one.
 
I have to be at least a little amused. People act like it was terrible “back in the day” when Catholic laity were expected to “pray, pay and obey”. When you think about it, there’s really not much wrong with that exhortation. 🙂
 
Bad stuff can happen. Bad stuff will probably happen. However, we are guaranteed in scripture that the Church will prevail so the only thing to do is pray, be a good Catholic, love God and neighbor…in short, stay on the winning team.
 
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GordonP said:
Unless you were a king, you would have had absolutely zero choice. Your king made his choice for you, and you had no choice but to comply with his decision.

The thing that is new is that for the first time ordinary people do actually have a choice, and they have the freedom to express their opinions.and plenty of outlets in which to do so, such as this forum, for one.
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Indeed rulers could seek to remove choice as to which creed became the “Establishment Approved” one, but as the witness of the English and Welsh martyrs and many Irish people illustrate, belief cannot be imposed by law. It resides and flourishes within.
It is very good news that the information revolution has brought about the easier transmission of information. Failure to understand that by many in authority is simply a repeat of the mistakes of those who underestimated the impact of the invention of the printing press.
 
When in times of crisis like this, always start by looking to the past. This is not the first instance of crisis within the church and we could all learn from picking up church history, historical Catechism, our bibles and leaning on the simple encyclicals of the past. The truth of the faith is very simple and has been a constant thread throughout the chaotic history of the church. Find what is and always has remained constant and hold onto it.
 
Camehome4john6 said:
Bad stuff can happen. Bad stuff will probably happen. However, we are guaranteed in scripture that the Church will prevail so the only thing to do is pray, be a good Catholic, love God and neighbor…in short, stay on the winning team.
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Right. What else can we do?
If everybody else on the planet decides to be godless or whatever, I can’t personally do anything more than what you said to do above.
And if Jesus decides that despite my good efforts I need “purification” or God wills that something happen to me because of man’s sins or for some other reason, I can’t do anything about that either except to accept it in the best grace possible.

I don’t see any reason to get het up over stuff I can’t do anything about except what you said above. Moreover, I should be doing what you said above whether times are good or times are bad.

It seems like so many are obsessed with the end times or with thinking the Church is coming to an end…it’s unproductive as well as highly speculative.
 
I think the church will continue to exist and hold together for the foreseeable future, and then eventually Christ will return. We survived the persecutions of the Pagan Roman Emperors, the Protestant Schism, and antipapacies.
 
When I look for spritual guidance it is always in established faith, never in modernism or progressivism, but that is just me, I find comfort in my old warm blanket.
 
FraStefano said:
In these days of uncertainty and confusion, where do we go for truth and direction?
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I always say study Scripture along with the catechisms. I say catechisms because I usually suggest three: Roman Catechism from Trent, Baltimore catechism and the modern CCC. Our priest called the Roman catechism the foundation for all others and a highly important read.
FraStefano said:
I am interested what faithful Catholics think might happen?
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No one knows the future and what will happen but my own personal opinion is much of the strength of Tradition, reverence and beauty will return. If you want to see what the future of something is, look at the youth in that something.

I think many of the errors of the last 50 years will be clarified but the world and worldly Catholics will not be happy with the clarifications.

We just have to stay on the ship and weather the storm we are in right now. I don’t believe the storm is something made up by bloggers but something that is truly happening in the Church. We have lost so many parishioners at our parish in the last 5 - 10 or so years for the non denominational churches, I can’t imagine thinking there isn’t a crisis.

Pray rosaries. 📿
 
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Well, there is only one little note I have on this: The Crisis ™ long predates Catholic blogs, fora, and even Catholic press.

You and I are old enough to know the world before the Internet, and before large scale availability of Catholic press.

And you and I know that the crisis started in modern terms around the 1930s or so in small intellectual circles. The vast majority of people living in 1930-1960 had little or no access to what was being taught and spread in theological circles. Even many of the clergy had no idea which is why so many clerics were blindsided not by Vatican 2, but by the results which happened after Vatican 2.

And all this took place without Catholic blogs, fora, and press. Many of the Catholic press organs no longer exist today. Many (such as Maryknoll Magazine) have undergone a huge change from what they were before 1970 or so.

We lost a ton of people to the religious crisis of the modern age well before blogs and fora existed, and well before the majority of Catholics were able to go online and find things like the documents of Vatican 2, before the catechism of Pope St. John Paul 2, before one could read the Register or the Wanderer or even the Bitter Pill or the Reporter.

The crisis in large part exists because both before and after the Internet, the majority of adult Catholics were influenced by their teachers and priests and bishops. If you were lucky enough to have lived in a solidly Catholic area where you had a decent Catholic education and --even more important–you were lucky enough to avoid the major conflicts of the sexual revolution–and–nearly as important–you were able to have the good ‘reinforced’ and not be challenged by major life events–then you were very lucky. Many more have fallen victim to one or all the above–again, without any (name removed by moderator)ut from the Catholic blogs, fora, or Catholic press.

While those things may ‘generate income’ (and we’ve seen plenty of the above come in, do okay for a while, and then fail, so it’s certainly in no way a guarantee to 'get income by fomenting crisis), it is not a cause of the crisis for this to happen.
 
If you want to define “crisis” that broadly, then you could take it clear back to the Pope Pius IX era.

The Church has been more or less in perpetual crisis for a long time, methinks.

To be honest it’s looking a little better to me now than it did 30 years ago. The quality of priests, seminarians and religious seems to be improving, for one thing.
 
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Everything that is a crisis today has been so for decades.
Poor catechesis? Definitely since the 1960s (and you will always hear from the people who 'went to Catholic school in the 1940s and 1950s and 'never learning anything real about God"). Predates blogs, fora, press.
Dissent? Oh my gadfry yes. Recall the reaction by the Berrigan brothers in the 1960s, the huge push against Humanae Vitae, civil rights issues, ‘married priests’, ‘women priests’, the loss of tens of thousands if not more religious sisters etc.
Environmental issues? Ditto to late 1960s.
Issues regarding liturgy, doctrine, dogma? Again, all these were hotly debated in the 1960s by large numbers of Catholics.
So actually I’m kind of curious as to what one would deem a crisis today that was NOT a crisis in the Catholic world in the 1950s-1960s-1970s lready. (Even ‘gay marriage’ was being argued over and by 1967 Loving v. Virginia was hotly argued over, and of course we all know Roe v. Wade was 1973). . . the Sexual revolution was percolating and all ‘modern’ sex issues were seen then, at least to some extent. And even the priestly ‘sex scandal’ was happening. And one could argue that in such a case, having blogs and fora and Catholic press helped bring out things that needed to be known.
 
True! The wheel does not need reinvented. I don’t care how many people claim it does lol we should always lean heavily on tradition.
 
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