The Future of Organized Labor

[Pete2]

jlw:

Where does the money come from to fund public education, and therefore the adminisrators, teachers, and school board members running the show???

Where does the money come from to fund public transit??

Where does the money come from to fund public safety/defense??

Where does the money come from to fund medicare and medicaid??

These services are all funded by the government, which raises money through taxing the citizens.

The unions are funded by the individuals who work for these departments and agencies.

Teachers pay annual dues to a teachers union. Our taxes pay the teacher’s salary, but the teacher decides whether to give some of their salary to a union that represents them. The taxpayers should not have a say in which car or TV a teacher buys with their salary, just like the taxpayers should not have a say in whether or not they use their hard earned money to join a union.

Pete

 

[jlw]

just like the taxpayers should not have a say in whether or not they use their hard earned money to join a union.

NO ONE is keeping someone from joining a union!!! Huh? ONLY saying that workers (whose dues, that came from their salary, that came from the budget, which came from the department, which came from the general fund, which came from tax revenues, which came from my paycheck, which came from my work) should have a say, in writting, whether or not they want to contribute to the political machinery of the unions and candidates, because ultimately, it’s where MY taxdollar goes, too.

 

[Pete2]

jlw:

NO ONE is keeping someone from joining a union!!! Huh? ONLY saying that workers (whose dues, that came from their salary, that came from the budget, which came from the department, which came from the general fund, which came from tax revenues, which came from my paycheck, which came from my work) should have a say, in writting, whether or not they want to contribute to the political machinery of the unions and candidates, because ultimately, it’s where MY taxdollar goes, too.

JLW, you’ve got a pretty unorthodox view on things…

If you buy a car, you get a car in exchange for money. Do you have a claim on what happens to that money after you have your car? No. And the car company has no claim on how you use your car. The car company now owns the money and you own the car.

If you buy teaching services from a teacher in exchange for money, do you have a claim on what happens to that money after you have received teaching services from the teacher? No. That money belongs to the teacher, and they can do whatever they want with it, whether you like it or not.

You seem to disagree with the generally accepted concept of the use of money in exchange for goods and services, which is strange, but hey, it’s America! You can take whatever view you want.

Pete

 

[jlw]

Pete2:

JLW, you’ve got a pretty unorthodox view on things…

If you buy a car, you get a car in exchange for money. Do you have a claim on what happens to that money after you have your car? No. And the car company has no claim on how you use your car. The car company now owns the money and you own the car.

If you buy teaching services from a teacher in exchange for money, do you have a claim on what happens to that money after you have received teaching services from the teacher? No. That money belongs to the teacher, and they can do whatever they want with it, whether you like it or not.

You seem to disagree with the generally accepted concept of the use of money in exchange for goods and services, which is strange, but hey, it’s America! You can take whatever view you want.

Pete

I have NO recourse as to how my TAXDOLLARS ARE SPENT???

 

[Pete2]

jlw:

I have NO recourse as to how my TAXDOLLARS ARE SPENT???

Of course you do. In my example, your tax dollars are spent on teaching services. And you got your teaching services. The deal is done. If you want the government to procure more or less teaching services, then you can call your representatives in Congress.

If the teacher then goes and spends his own personal, hard-earned money on a new car, a banana split, a 20 year old copy of An Officer And A Gentleman on betamax, and union dues, it’s not any of your business. Even if you think An Officer And A Gentleman is a terrible movie, and betamax is a silly standard for video tape and a total waste of money. You have no say in what video standard that teacher wants to waste his money on…even if DVD players are really cheap.

Get my point?

Pete

 

[jlw]

Pete2:Of course you do. In my example, your tax dollars are spent on teaching services. And you got your teaching services. The deal is done.

Bull****.

If you want the government to procure more or less teaching services, then you can call your representatives in Congress.

And that’s what I’ve been doing. I’m po’d that teacher unions care more about the salarys I PAY, than the quality of education MY CHILD GETS.

If the teacher then goes and spends his own personal, hard-earned money on a new car, a banana split, a 20 year old copy of An Officer And A Gentleman on betamax, and union dues, it’s not any of your business. Even if you think An Officer And A Gentleman is a terrible movie, and betamax is a silly standard for video tape and a total waste of money.

Agreed. I don’t care what the teacher does with his/her NET pay. I could care less! I DO care about what happens with the public’s money though!! Furthermore the transaction between me and government is NOT the same as my transaction between me and say…Ford. One, after I get my car, and Ford profits, I don’t care if they waste thier profits. But if they DO give money to abortionists, I can IMMEDIATELY stop all transactions with Ford. Now, If government screws with my money (after all, even once it’s in D.C., it’s STILL our money, not their “hard-earned profit”) I have NO immediate recourse, except through legislative action–hence, the ballot initiative.

Get my point?

Your point is flawed. You think government is like a business “offering services to the marketplace”. It’s not. A real business in a free marketplace relies on investors who demand return on their investment. If the results aren’t there, numbers don’t jive, the money is yanked–in hours, not “in the next election cycle”. Government is the employee, WE are its employer. The Government spends OUR money. It’s not THEIR money. You think it’s the other way around or something.

 

[Pete2]

You’ve brought up about 36 different issues in that last post: the tax code, the quality of public education, the role of government in the public good, perhaps the length of congressional terms?, what else?

I’m beginning to think that you’re trolling here, because you are completely ignoring my very simple to understand point, and you respond only by bringing up unrelated topics.

Either that, or you truly resent the government’s existence, and see no value in public goods. If that’s the case, then I suspect that you probably own a gun, live in the woods, have solar panels on your house, and keep your entire net worth in gold bullion in your basement.

Either way, we have no reason to waste our time debating further.

Pete

 

[jlw]

Either way, we have no reason to waste our time debating further.

Pete, I just pointed out the flaws in your last post, that’s all.

But if I am “completely ignoring” your “very simple-to-understand point”, then please restate it, and I’ll “simply” answer. Oh, if you ask for clarification, as you have done a few times, how should I respond??

 

[jlw]

Furthermore, if you don’t think the link between

the tax code, the quality of public education, the role of government in the public good

is something this husband, father, citizen, and taxpayer should bring up when discussing public employee union political contributions, what can I say??

And, with 2000+ posts on this forum, I’m hardly a troll, as anyone will attest. Apology accepted in advance.

 

[Philip_P]

jlw:

Pete, I just pointed out the flaws in your last post, that’s all.

But if I am “completely ignoring” your “very simple-to-understand point”, then please restate it, and I’ll “simply” answer. Oh, if you ask for clarification, as you have done a few times, how should I respond??

I think his point was quite simple - a union is not a public agency, and hence its internal rules are properly determined by its members, not by taxpayers, voters, or anyone else.

For some reason you seem to think that unions of public employees are public agencies. They’re not. Sure, they’re indirectly supported by public funds, but then so is every other man, woman, and child in these United States (driven on any roads lately? Had a shower? Used any electrical appliances?). And what this has to do with “the future of organized labor” is at this point beyond me. This thread appears to be effectively dead. Too bad, because I would have enjoyed some discussion on the globalization of labor.