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KevinK
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Historical and mythical are mutually exclusive. Either something physically happened or it didn’t. It can’t be the case that it is both.
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Hope1960
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Gorgias, you’re really good at this and know your stuff. What do you say to KevinK?
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Hope1960
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The Catholic Church also allows Catholic to believe in evolution.
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KevinK
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Why doesn’t the Church know if the Creation story or evolution are factual?
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Hope1960
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Ask Gorgias. I’m not an apologist, but he knows what he’s talking about. I mostly only post here to learn.
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ChristMyLife
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When I said Genesis is myth, I meant myth as in story telling, not fake.
Genesis tells the story of the Creation of the Universe & World, the Creation of Life on Earth, the spread and diversification of Life on Earth, the Creation of Man, Adam, and the fall of Man (Adam and Eve). Genesis tells the story of the spread of Man on Earth, the spread of wickedness and sin amongst man, the desire of God to cleanse man of his sin through a Preacher of Righteousness (Noah) and water (a type of Jesus and the Baptism of Christ). Genesis tells the story of the continued wickedness of Man even after the appearance of the Righteous Man, the pride of Man in his pursuit of being his own God, the creation of Nation-States and varying languages and cultures of Man. Lastly, Genesis tells the story of the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph, through whom the Messiah will come.
This is the Story of Genesis. Genesis tells this story, especially in its first 11 chapters, in a genre called “myth.” It is a story told so as to reveal theological truth.
The Book of Genesis is a Sacred Revelation. A revealing of ultimate truth, of theology, faith and morals.
Genesis is not a history textbook, not a biology or geology textbook, not an astronomy textbook. Genesis is an ancient Hebrew Scriptural text, and should be read and treated and believed as such.
Genesis tells the story of the Creation of the Universe & World, the Creation of Life on Earth, the spread and diversification of Life on Earth, the Creation of Man, Adam, and the fall of Man (Adam and Eve). Genesis tells the story of the spread of Man on Earth, the spread of wickedness and sin amongst man, the desire of God to cleanse man of his sin through a Preacher of Righteousness (Noah) and water (a type of Jesus and the Baptism of Christ). Genesis tells the story of the continued wickedness of Man even after the appearance of the Righteous Man, the pride of Man in his pursuit of being his own God, the creation of Nation-States and varying languages and cultures of Man. Lastly, Genesis tells the story of the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph, through whom the Messiah will come.
This is the Story of Genesis. Genesis tells this story, especially in its first 11 chapters, in a genre called “myth.” It is a story told so as to reveal theological truth.
The Book of Genesis is a Sacred Revelation. A revealing of ultimate truth, of theology, faith and morals.
Genesis is not a history textbook, not a biology or geology textbook, not an astronomy textbook. Genesis is an ancient Hebrew Scriptural text, and should be read and treated and believed as such.
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Hope1960
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So, you mean it’s words aren’t historically literal, right?
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ChristMyLife
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Its words transcend history, they are suprahistorical and transliteral.
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Hope1960
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In English please.
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ChristMyLife
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The Sacred Words of Genesis are above history (suprahistorical) and more than literal (transliteral).
To interpret Genesis as a historical textbook or in a literalistic fashion is an error.
To interpret Genesis as a historical textbook or in a literalistic fashion is an error.
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Gorgias
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I understand what you’re saying, but you’re relying on a casual definition of ‘myth’ that doesn’t apply in this context. A “myth” is genre of writing in which the author attempts to tell the truth via symbol, metaphor, and allegory, using the tools that readers/listeners of the genre understand. When we hear “once upon a time”, for instance, we recognize the genre, and it clues us in to the ways we’ll hear truth expressed and how we unpack that truth. Nevertheless, what myth really does attempt is to tell the truth.
Now, that doesn’t mean that all myths tell the truth equally well (just as not all histories tell the truth equally well!). However, we misunderstand the jargon when we conflate “myth” with “untruth.”
So, are ‘historical narrative’ and ‘mythical narrative’ actually “mutually exclusive”, as you claim they are? Well… yes and no. Both attempt to tell the truth. Each use their own method to tell the truth. Both attempt to talk about things that “physically happened”, but each talk about them in different ways.
The attempt to say “historical accounts tell truth” grossly misunderstands people and the way they tell historical accounts. The attempt to say “mythical accounts do not tell truth”, likewise, grossly misunderstands people and their intent in telling mythological accounts.
The Catholic Church knows that the creation stories (plural!) of Genesis are accounts which tell the theological truth of the beginnings of salvation history.
The Church knows that the Bible is not a science book, and therefore, she knows that she doesn’t teach scientific theories (one of which is ‘evolution’).
Catholics are permitted the leeway to approach Genesis as they wish… as long as we hold to the theological truths that Genesis teaches (and which the Church upholds).
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Hope1960
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So, like I asked, Genesis isn’t historically literal the, correct?
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ChristMyLife
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You’re not grasping what I’m trying to convey…
You’re asking the wrong question.
Asking “is genesis not historically true” is an error in and of itself.
Genesis is SUPRAhistorical - ABOVE history.
Genesis tells the story OF history… It’s not history itself… It is a revelation from God’s Perspective, looking down on history.
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Hope1960
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So I’m ok believing Genesis isn’t historically literal?
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ChristMyLife
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As long as you believe Genesis is conveying Sacred History in a theological context, and you assent to the theological teachings revealed in Genesis and taught through the Magisterium of the Church, you’re good.
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Hope1960
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What is “Sacred history in a theological context?” Gorgias, back to you…
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ChristMyLife
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The history of the Church and Israel of God, the story of our Faith, the history and story of Christ Jesus… Told in a manner which reveals theological truth.
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Hope1960
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So,once again, that to me doesn’t sound historically literal, as in it doesn’t sound historical by telling us true, factual history.
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ChristMyLife
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Genesis is not a textbook on history. Genesis is Sacred Revelation, not 21st century academic history.
If you’re asking “is Genesis the same as a history textbook used in school?” the answer is no.
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Gorgias
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LOL! Have you seen that car insurance commercial that’s set in the jungle, and ‘Flo’ is leading a group of adventurers who stumble upon a lost group of insurance agents? She has to keep interpreting for the group, by using insurance jargon to reach out to the one group. That’s how I feel right now!
OK… “sacred history in a theological context”, I’d say, means that God is trying to tell us what happened through the lens of understanding Him and His plan for our salvation. So, in that context, does it really matter whether platypusses or wildebeests came first? Whether all species appeared simultaneously or whether some evolved from others?
No. What matters is that God created everything from nothing, and it was all good. The ‘sacred history’ that we’re learning is that God created the entirety of the universe, from scratch (not from pre-existing materials), and that he placed us in it in order to guard and tend to it.
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