The Garden of Gethsemane

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Sam_777

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When JESUS prayed 3 times for GOD in the garden of gethsemane:
“My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

I know that JESUS said also “The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.”, but my questions are:
  1. If GOD had listened to “JESUS will”, does that mean the plan of salvation was abandoned? or JESUS death would have taken another scenario?
  2. GOD “did not” listen to JESUS on that prayer, instead GOD sends an Angel from heaven to strengthen him, so does that count as a “NO” for that JESUS prayer?
On the side note, Muslim clerics claim that GOD had listened to JESUS prayer and saved him, and the crucifixion was nothing but illusion from GOD.

Your insightful thoughts please.
 
Jesus is human as well as divine. He is God incarnate.
It was part of humanity to wish to escape his ordeal. In this Jesus is one with us.
Jesus’ prayer serves as a profound witness to us, for all of us who face trials and difficulties in our lives.
Jesus taught us to pray for our human needs but to bow to divine purpose.
As humans, silently or audibly, we cry out from our hearts even when we must endure.

A mother may say, save me from the ordeal of birth!
However the child cannot stay within her. She knows that. The baby will be born, either naturally or through cesarean. Both involve pain, either at the time of birth or during recovery.

Jesus knew He must go though this, just as a mother does. He cried out in His humanity, but He knew what must occur.

We saw Jesus face another great decision. His choice would be the same, there is no possibility He would have chosen the easy way, any more this time or in the temptation in the wilderness where satan offered to relinquish all power to Him if He would act against divine purpose. Matthew 4:1-11

The Father listened. He answered the prayer of Jesus true desire, to redeem humankind.
(The loving and good mother, also, may wish to escape pain, but she desires her baby).
And yes, the Fathersent consolation and strength to Jesus in His humanity.
 
Sam_777 said:
  1. If GOD had listened to “JESUS will”, does that mean the plan of salvation was abandoned? or JESUS death would have taken another scenario?
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Neither. The plan was not abandoned. Jesus knew all along that he was going to be crucified. This is why he asked God to “let this cup pass” from him. There was no other scenario. Another scenario would have been against God’s will.
  1. GOD “did not” listen to JESUS on that prayer, instead GOD sends an Angel from heaven to strengthen him, so does that count as a “NO” for that JESUS prayer?
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Incorrect. God listens to Jesus’ prayer but does not grant Jesus’ request to be spared from crucifixion. Instead Jesus must do God’s will. The angels were sent to nourish Jesus in preparation for his capture, torture and crucifixion.
On the side note, Muslim clerics claim that GOD had listened to JESUS prayer and saved him, and the crucifixion was nothing but illusion from GOD.

Your insightful thoughts please.
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My Muslim friends have told me this, so I’m familiar with the claim. I respectfully disagree. It is clear from the gospel passage that Jesus, despite praying three times, concedes all three times to God’s will that he be crucified:

"36 Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples, “Sit here, while I go yonder and pray.” 37 And taking with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me.” 39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.” 40 And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping; and he said to Peter, “So, could you not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 42 Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, "My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, thy will be done." 43 And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44 So, leaving them again, **he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words. **45 Then he came to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? Behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise, let us be going; see, my betrayer is at hand.”

If God listened to Jesus and spared him from crucixion, then why would Jesus acknowledge that God’s will be done, not his - not Jesus’ will? There was no illusion from God either. Jesus was crucified and Jesus resurrected from the dead three days later.

I hope this helps shed some light on it!
 
It is worthy of note that dyothelitism, as defined at Constantinople III, is the orthodox Christian position on Christ’s will; that is, that Christ had two wills, united in one person: one human and one divine. When Christ prays, the will which He mentions is His human will, whereas the will to which he surrenders is the Divine Will.
 
Everything our Lord Jesus Christ obeyed was for love for His Father, and for us.

And everything the Father asked of Jesus was for us and for the glorification of Jesus our Lord.

What an awesome mystery!

And, at the same time Jesus gave us an example of the struggle we all go through daily, whether in little things or big.

Thanks be to God the Father for the glorious Resurrection of God the Son!

Send us your Holy Spirit to fill us, enlighten us, and be our strength.
 
Since I trust JESUS 100%, I was thinking of this idea which I have read before in a book about JESUS in one public library in the west:

**JESUS decided to switch cups with the humans. **
**
**So JESUS had drank from the “Cup of Wrath and Judgment” which humans deserve, and granted us the “Cup of Blessing” which humans did not deserve.

So GOD had listened to JESUS and passed the “Cup of Blessing” from him (which what JESUS was requesting) and granted JESUS will and gave him the “Cup of Wrath and Judgment” (a.k.a, the crucifixion).

If that idea is somehow true, then GOD did not want the crucifixion to happen, but JESUS did.

Thoughts?
 
Jesus’ prayer was answered. The final request in His prayer was that the Father’s will be done. God granted that request.
 
Nita said:
Jesus’ prayer was answered. The final request in His prayer was that the Father’s will be done. God granted that request.
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That could be right, if JESUS had prayed only one time not three times.
 
Sam_777 said:
Since I trust JESUS 100%, I was thinking of this idea which I have read before in a book about JESUS in one public library in the west:

**JESUS decided to switch cups with the humans. **
**
**So JESUS had drank from the “Cup of Wrath and Judgment” which humans deserve, and granted us the “Cup of Blessing” which humans did not deserve.

So GOD had listened to JESUS and passed the “Cup of Blessing” from him (which what JESUS was requesting) and granted JESUS will and gave him the “Cup of Wrath and Judgment” (a.k.a, the crucifixion).

If that idea is somehow true, then GOD did not want the crucifixion to happen, but JESUS did.

Thoughts?
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To understand the answer first we must understand that we are talking about God-man Jesus. Not just man and not just God, but both, Jesus is God-man. He had two natures, God and man.

The God nature means Jesus was God, the second person of the Trinity. In the Trinity there are three persons, Father & Son & Holy Spirit, but there is only one nature…God.

Jesus is the Son in this Trinity, and therefore he is God with a divine will and intellect.

Jesus was born of Mary his human mother Therefore Jesus as man, born of Mary, has a human intellect and will.

It is important to understand that Jesus is then God-man, and not just God taking over a human body.God literally became man in time in this world.

And since he was man, he had human sufferings. An because he was divine, he had no sufferings but only happiness.

And so as a man, he asked his Father to spare him these human sufferings if at all possible. But as God the Son, he intended to do this, and was in perfect harmony with his Father in heaven about the crucifixion. So Jesus did and didn’t want it, if one understands God-man.

So this will answer the statement
then GOD did not want the crucifixion to happen, but JESUS did.
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May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
See also:

Matt 26:53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?

54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so? "
 
Sam_777 said:
That could be right, if JESUS had prayed only one time not three times.
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I don’t think it makes any difference how many times He prayed it; it was still the same prayer with “Thy will be done” being the final words of His request each time.
 
Sam_777 said:
On the side note, Muslim clerics claim that GOD had listened to JESUS prayer and saved him, and the crucifixion was nothing but illusion from GOD.
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Hi,

The way to make this clear is to explain that the Father’s Will, that Jesus accept the crucifixion is to explain that this is a perfect expression of the Father’s love.

defendingthebride.com/ss/lastchr.html#love

In other words,
Muslims believe in a smaller god.

Also see
defendingthebride.com/ma3/only12.html

John
 
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