The Gates of Hell are Misrepresented

[martino]

Petra, the “alone” thing was a bad attempt at humor, forget about that one!

Here is how v.19 deals with infallibility; Peter and all the popes possess the key of the kingdom, the keys represent authority, and this verse clearly shows that Peter was the 1st pope, able to bind and loose. This power given by Jesus requires infallibility, otherwise we would have an authoritative Church binding people to false teachings, and we all would agree that Jesus is not so naive to hand the keys over to someone like Peter who He knows to be very fallible. So if we agree that if this authority was given to the Church it would require their judgements to be infallible, the only question would be whether or not Jesus intended to impart the gift of infallibility to His Church.
Matt 16:19- Peter given “keys of the kingdom” and power to “bind and loose”
Jn 16:13- the Church will be guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth.
Jn 14:26- Holy Spirit to teach & remind them of everything.
Lk 10:16- Church speaks with Christ’s own voice.
1 Tim 3:15- Church is called “pillar and foundation of truth”.
1Jn 2:27- anointing of Holy Spirit remains in you(Church).
Acts 15:28- Apostles speak with the voice of the Holy Spirit.
Mt 28:20- “I am with you always”. Jesus to the apostles!
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"v.19 does not say these exact words,“the Church is perfectly infallible on matters of faith and morals.” .

Where does the Bible say these exact words, “From now on you are to begin observing Sunday as the day of rest and worship instead of Saturday”?

“… I still don’t understand how the Church could have greater authority than God, even when the Church errs, as in the case of the centuries-old teaching that certain sins could never be forgiven. Why would God allow someone to be damned on account of the Church’s error?”
The point is that the Church does not claim to have more authority than God, all her authority comes directly from God. Since God is His wisdom, sent the Holy Spirit to guide the Church into all truth until the end of time, which is what the gift of infallibility is, He needn’t worry that the Church will attempt to overide His laws, because He has made it impossible to do so! Praise God! The Church with all her power can only uphold God’s laws, she cannot change or misrepresent them-INFALLIBILITY!

As for your interpretation:
Let’s read the passage one more time: “18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

First of all that cannot be the correct interpretation because He is only talking about Peter, not every Christian, not even every apostle! Hades, or abode of the dead, refers to those that have passed into the next life, not those simply struggling with sin. What are the “keys” refering to and would you claim that as a Christian you possess these keys? In order for you to back up your interpretation you are going to have to answer these questions. To learn more about the keys I refer you to Is 22:21-22!
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[MariaG]

Posted by Petra

I’m a fairly new Catholic, and was Protestant before that. I’m finding out now, that when I converted to Catholicism, I really didn’t know much about it. The priest that instructed me prior to my conversion presented a very different picture of what Catholicism is. He made it seem very simple and very positive.

I agree that this board is very orthodox, and my concerns come from the posts of conservative Catholics. In other words, Catholics are shaking my faith, not dissenters. I’m here to honestly try to work through my issues (I hope you don’t object to that), which are theological and not moral. I’m in complete agreement with the moral teachings of the Church.

That would explain your “protestant flavor” .
I am sorry to hear that the priest was so lax in his duties. And of course I don’t object to you trying to work through your issues. This is the best online site in by opinion to get a true understanding of Catholic theology.

And while the basic message is very simple and very positive, (Jesus died for our sins so we can go to heaven) there is such depth and fullness that is missing from the Protestant branches.

And since you haven’t been in the church long, I hope you stay aware of the fact that there are words that are used that are the same but mean different things for example: Born again. In the fundamental groups I came from, this meant an experience that I had as an adult when I choose to follow Jesus Christ. In Catholic terminology it means Baptism, being born again into the body of Christ, from which we do not deny the little children (infants) to come to Christ. Same words, different meanings.

Just know and rest in your faith in Jesus Christ. Know He would not lead you wrong. And let God continue to lead you into the fullness of Truth which does reside in the Catholic Church.

Mt. 28:20 “… and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

I came from a fundamental Protestant background. My saving grace sermon said “Either you believe the Bible cover to cover including the cover or we have nothing else to talk about!”

I still believe that 100%. Either Christ is still with the Church He established or He isn’t. If He isn’t why bother being a Christian if He will not “be with me always”? Why leave me to flounder around trying to find the right church that has the real teachings?

I take great comfort in the Catholic Church and it’s teachings. It is the only Christian Church that held fast to “traditions, whether oral or by letter” 2 Thess 2:15 putting them on the same level as Scripture since Scripture makes no difference between the two!

Anyway, rest easy. Christ is with you. He led you to the Catholic Church. And He will continue to lead you into the fullness of knowledge found in the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

P.S.
Although Christ did come to set the captives free, the Scripture that refers to binding and loosing is applied erroneously here. Binding and loosing was a specific reference to the duties that Jewish Priests had. Christ was transfering that responsibility to the Catholic Church to make or change the rules.

 

[martino]

Sorry for all the weird type in my last post, something funny was going on and everything came out different than how i had it!!! It’s hard to differentiate between quotes from Petra and my responses.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

Wow!!

This discussion got lively during my few days absence.

Thanks everyone for the presenatations.

Martino -
I didn’t take your attitude to be uncouth. Though, I think that Petra did a superb job of directing you to my main concern, perhaps getting you back towards it with his guidance. That’s just what it looked like.

Petra -
From my continued learning about Catholicism, I have learned that so much of what is discussed and debated today, from Justification, the Papacy, Mass matters, Mary, even to abortion and “outside the Catholic church” ecumenical issues, is addressed in the Church Fathers’ writings. Yes, there were other “Christian” churches outside the Catholic church. Many of them claimed to be the “Catholic” Church. But they were considered heretics that the good Bishops, Priests, and lay people sought to lovingly correct and bring back to the Catholic church. I’m not wanting to get off on another topic, but I do want to say, that as far as historicity goes, you have plenty of resources available that the Church still looks back to (or ignores to it’s detriment) that you can easily learn from yourself.

Ok, yeah, so if I were Catholic, I’d feel comfortable using Matthew 16:18-20 (in context) to defend the Papacy and related matters. But I’d want to give plenty more Scripture references to strengthen what I was saying.

 

[heliumspark]

Careful- I love to eat boogers and I am willing to use my toes!!!