The gates of hell won't prevail against it?

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Jonathan_Cid said:
Also, take Christ’s words again: “Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against Her.”

Does that mean that if any Christian loses their faith or does anything contrary to the faith (because, surprise, molesting children is contrary to Catholic faith), Jesus lied? Did Jesus lie that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church?

Again, in that case, let’s just give up on religion and God. Forget them - after all, if someone abandons their faith, goes and does something outrageous, it is the Church which teaches the faith that is to blame, not just the person who has been taught against what they are doing.
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or, let’s just try to do everything we can to justify our own actions or inactions and in the meanwhile condemn others. Words are easy, actions are not.
 
What action should be taken, then, that has not already been taken? Since apparently you can’t argue with the words, let argue with the actions.

It seems to me that there are actions or inactions in the Anglican Church (and mind you, I look at a number of Anglicans as true Catholics) which you are ignoring and meanwhile attempting to condemn others.
 
SIA said:
The views you speak of are minority views in the Anglican Communion, not the majority. Just as Catholics blame individuals for sex crimes in the church and not the church; what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You can’t have it both ways.
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Hon, I am not the one trying to have it both ways. Please check the nearest mirror.
Please, stop trying to use this to attack the Roman Catholic Church - in paradoxical ways you’re bringing down the Anglican Church. Lose the subjectivity. Get objective. Lose the bias.
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Wise words which bear repeating.
 
Jonathan_Cid said:
What action should be taken, then, that has not already been taken? Since apparently you can’t argue with the words, let argue with the actions.
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I think that the RCC should level with the people about everything. The facts about how much of the parishioners’ money has been spent on not just judgments but also legal fees, lawyer fees and such. They should tell the truth about the priests and bishops that were moved to avoid indictment for their crimes. The church should make a valiant and I mean an extrordinary effort to reach out to those devastaed by this travesty.
 
SIA said:
I think that the RCC should level with the people about everything. The facts about how much of the parishioners’ money has been spent on not just judgments but also legal fees, lawyer fees and such. They should tell the truth about the priests and bishops that were moved to avoid indictment for their crimes. The church should make a valiant and I mean an extrordinary effort to reach out to those devastaed by this travesty.
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So what do the sins of the HUMANS have to do with the teachings of the Church? :eek:
 
SIA said:
I guess absolutely nothing in your case.
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The sins of the people have nothing to do with the legitimacy of the Church.

No matter how bad the human aspect of the Church gets, you can never take away it’s foundation.
 
SIA said:
I think that the RCC should level with the people about everything. The facts about how much of the parishioners’ money has been spent on not just judgments but also legal fees, lawyer fees and such. They should tell the truth about the priests and bishops that were moved to avoid indictment for their crimes. The church should make a valiant and I mean an extrordinary effort to reach out to those devastaed by this travesty.
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Before I go on, I’m sure you’ve noticed, I’m not a Roman Catholic. And by the Old Catholic standards I profess, Anglicans who believe all the dogmas of the faith as with the Vincentian Canon are truly Catholics - the Anglican Catholic Church would agree with me.

Now, legal fees, lawyers, and such, if I’m not mistaken, these have already been revealed in many instances. Parishioners form part of the boards and structures that oversee such things. Regardless, I fail to see how such information is relevant.

The Roman Catholic Church does not have an obligation as an institution to reach out with an extraordinary effort, however, it is doing so. The Pope has personally apologized and met with many of these people. The supreme leader of the Roman Catholic Church, the Catholic “primus inter pares” has personally met with victims of the travesty in an extraordinary effort to reach out to those devasted by it. It has been a truly valiant effort on behalf of the Holy Father, and I tip my hat off to him.

I am certainly to be one of the most opposed people of this forum being an Old Catholic, and while I agree with my Ultramontanist fellow Catholics on most things and disagree on a few, despite the vehemence of the arguments over those few things, I would never stoop to the level of using this terrible scandal, painful as it is for all involved, for my own motivations.

Be objective.
 
jay29 said:
Your church is leading people to HELL with that gay nonsense.
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can you provide me documentation that the Church of Uganda supports gay unions and actively gay clergy? Would love to see it Jay!
 
SIA said:
can you provide me documentation that the Church of Uganda supports gay unions and actively gay clergy? Would love to see it Jay!
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So you’re not Anglican anymore?

Yet another Protestant denomination is born!
 
SIA said:
can you provide me documentation that the Church of Uganda supports gay unions and actively gay clergy? Would love to see it Jay!
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You are not part of the Anglican Communion? Whatever…:rolleyes:
 
As usual, you haven’t answered any of my arguments. You haven’t even elaborated on your argument. I’m done firing shots at someone who isn’t firing back. Stop changing targets and stand your ground if you truly believe what you are saying.

If you can’t have the humility to accept truth, to search for it objectively, to see the difference between the good, the confused, and the wicked, you aren’t a Christian, and I don’t care what denomination you profess to be.

I’m done with this thread until you go back on all my arguments over the last several posts and begin answering them.

You’re in my prayers,
God bless!

“When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee.” - Jude 1:9
 
SIA said:
Do you think that the victims of the clergy abuse buy into what you are saying?
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How many victims of priestly abuse have you ever spoken to? Ask them if they “buy into” what I’m saying. I wouldn’t presume to speak for them. Do you?

While you’re at it, ask victims of sexual abuse at the hands of teachers, doctors, and the entire male gender if they feel that universal education, the medical establishment, and the human male should also be scrapped because of the behaviors of some.

I find it curious that people who rail against the Church for the sexual abuse scandal don’t apply the same rage against other institutions that have sexual predators hiding in them, as well.
 
Feedmysheep said:
I find it curious that people who rail against the Church for the sexual abuse scandal don’t apply the same rage against other institutions that have sexual predators hiding in them, as well.
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It is because the Catholic Church is proposed to be perfect, honest and infallible in items of Faith and Morals. Then the men who are charged to uphold her standards violate these in the most violent ways. As long as it is good then it is the whole church, laymen and priests - nuns - pope alike, but if it is vile like molestation or murder then it is individual. Isn’t that a double standard? Sure sounds like one.

Molestation is horrible no matter where you go. But when it is performed by those who are held to a higher standard because they serve the Almighty it is worse. By the priests and anyone who professes a Faith in Christ doing the horrible acts reflects on ALL of us. We have to take a more active aproach in how the Church (protestants and catholics) is viewed to this broken world. We have to take charge of those who dirty the name of the Church, especially when they hold high positions with in Her. By just moving them to another location it shows the unbelieving world that we don’t hold these violators to the same laws that we hold the rest of the world…
 
It is because the Catholic Church is proposed to be perfect, honest and infallible in items of Faith and Morals.
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I think you’re talking about the Roman Catholics Church as a particular Church holding the doctrine of papal infallibility as dogma. I’ve never heard the term “faith and morals” regarding the Church as a whole.

Anyhow, from a crazy Old Catholic, the Church is infallible - that is, the Church, not the Pope acting alone. And following this, certainly not a single priest or Bishop. (The Pope is a Bishop)
 
Singinbeauty said:
It is because the Catholic Church is proposed to be perfect, honest and infallible in items of Faith and Morals. Then the men who are charged to uphold her standards violate these in the most violent ways. As long as it is good then it is the whole church, laymen and priests - nuns - pope alike, but if it is vile like molestation or murder then it is individual. Isn’t that a double standard? Sure sounds like one.
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I find it disingenuous that someone who claims on their profile to be a Christian would argue that it’s a double standard to give God the glory when humans do godly things, yet blame human sinfulness when they do evil ones.

In your faith tradition do you give glory to human beings for doing holy things and blame God when we do evil ones?
 
SIA said:
The views you speak of are minority views in the Anglican Communion, not the majority. Just as Catholics blame individuals for sex crimes in the church and not the church; what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You can’t have it both ways.
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And yet you can? I suppose a majority of Catholics support the predatory homosexual priests who have perpetrated these sins against children?

Ignoratio elenchi on, good buddy.
 
SIA has a wicked plan. He’s trying to divert the attention of his fellow Anglicans who might be considering converting to Catholicism because of what’s going on at Lambeth by bringing up over and over and over this clerical sexual abuse thing.

He’ll soon find out he’ll be among those liberal Anglicans when the exodus of traditionalists is over.:rolleyes:

THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST THE ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. PERIOD.
 
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