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Gb2G
Guest
Hello everyone, I would be interested in thoughts on the You Tube video The Gay Debate: The Bible and Homosexuality by Matthew Viner. It is about an hour long but well worth the time.
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Holly3278
Guest
I would watch it but I really don’t want to watch an hour long video on Youtube about something that I am really not that interested in. However, I would ask a question: What side does this video take? Does it take the side of homosexuals or the side of the Church or what?
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SwizzleStick
Guest
If other posts from Gb2G are any indication at all, then the YouTube video supports the homosexual lifestyle.
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David_Alexander
Guest
I just watched the beginning and end.
The speaker outlines the main arguments for opposing homosexuality based on Scripture, but concludes that these arguments are taken out of context when opposing loving homosexual relationships, and appeals to us to show compassion and love to our homosexual brothers and sisters, and to help end their pain through acceptance.
I must say that this is a tough issue for me personally, because although I am married to a woman, I find it hard as a Christian to witness the suffering of those torn apart by their sexuality, and also to understand the existence of homosexuality.
My thoughts, for what they are worth, are that the references to homosexuality in the Bible are far outweighed by the call for kindness of love. Therefore, we should always aim to engender loving feelings towards all beings. The Bible, as the speaker in the video points out, is mainly aiming to discourage lustful acts when it deals with sexuality.
However, I feel also that when sexuality becomes a central theme in our lives, then we are in grave danger of losing sight of God. I have learned through my experiences and the teaching of the Church that love is really something that can and should be shared with many people, not just one single sexual partner. Of course depth of feeling can make a marriage wonderful, but we should aim to never lose sight of the Divine. As a married man, I still feel compelled to resist sexual urges and temptations.
My biggest challenge is understanding why homosexuality should exist at all. It is neither conducive to reproduction nor creating family structures without some external, and often unnatural intervention. To most heterosexual people, there is something at best curious, and at worst grotesque, about homosexual behaviour.
My conclusion is, I am not going to stand by courts opposing civil contracts between consenting adults, but I find it hard to endorse anything resembling marriage as I understand it between two members of the same sex.
Again, these are just thoughts, not fundamental opinions, and please everyone remember LOVE, in its true sense, wishing kindness upon others regardless of ourselves. I would like to see what others have to say on the matter.
The speaker outlines the main arguments for opposing homosexuality based on Scripture, but concludes that these arguments are taken out of context when opposing loving homosexual relationships, and appeals to us to show compassion and love to our homosexual brothers and sisters, and to help end their pain through acceptance.
I must say that this is a tough issue for me personally, because although I am married to a woman, I find it hard as a Christian to witness the suffering of those torn apart by their sexuality, and also to understand the existence of homosexuality.
My thoughts, for what they are worth, are that the references to homosexuality in the Bible are far outweighed by the call for kindness of love. Therefore, we should always aim to engender loving feelings towards all beings. The Bible, as the speaker in the video points out, is mainly aiming to discourage lustful acts when it deals with sexuality.
However, I feel also that when sexuality becomes a central theme in our lives, then we are in grave danger of losing sight of God. I have learned through my experiences and the teaching of the Church that love is really something that can and should be shared with many people, not just one single sexual partner. Of course depth of feeling can make a marriage wonderful, but we should aim to never lose sight of the Divine. As a married man, I still feel compelled to resist sexual urges and temptations.
My biggest challenge is understanding why homosexuality should exist at all. It is neither conducive to reproduction nor creating family structures without some external, and often unnatural intervention. To most heterosexual people, there is something at best curious, and at worst grotesque, about homosexual behaviour.
My conclusion is, I am not going to stand by courts opposing civil contracts between consenting adults, but I find it hard to endorse anything resembling marriage as I understand it between two members of the same sex.
Again, these are just thoughts, not fundamental opinions, and please everyone remember LOVE, in its true sense, wishing kindness upon others regardless of ourselves. I would like to see what others have to say on the matter.
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bri89
Guest
An impressive and thoughtful young man. His case is extremely well-presented and he goes to great length to leave no loose ends, touching on almost every objection that could me made against him. I support his position, although if I didn’t support it I might say he appeals a little too much to emotion. Thankfully, he puts those scriptural references to homosexuality within the proper historical and cultural context, which is rarely done. The depth to which he has explored those passages and the terminology in them reveals that they have been misconstrued and impregnated with meaning that was never originally there. Very good point about getting lost in abstrations. To his credit, he doesn’t have any political agenda.
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JimG
Guest
You might want to review Yeoman’s posts # 302 and # 303 here, with respect to the history of marriage.
As to the bible and homosexuality, both Judaic and Christian moral law have condemned homosexual behaviours as a matter of moral law (not incidental ritual law) since their beginnings. There is simply no doubt about that from any serious biblical scholar.
As to the bible and homosexuality, both Judaic and Christian moral law have condemned homosexual behaviours as a matter of moral law (not incidental ritual law) since their beginnings. There is simply no doubt about that from any serious biblical scholar.
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fix
Guest
Who is your authority?
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Gb2G
Guest
Hi fix and all,
By asking “who is your authority” do you mean when I said it is well worth your time?
I read about the video in an editorial in our local paper. Not being a biblical scholar( as I’m sure some of you are) I was interested in what the content would be. My pro marriage equality stance is based on social justice.
The speaker quotes the 6 references in the bible that refer to homosexuality, 3 in the old testament and 3 in the new. 5 of those references used to condemn homosexuality seem to be out of context with only the one in Leviticus that says it’s an abomination for a man to lie with a man,etc to be clear; but it goes on to say many other things are abominations which today are totally disreguarded. Then there is discussion about gentiles being freed from the old Jewish law.
It is a very intellegent and respectful presentation by a chaste Christian man who happens to be gay.
I’m sure every fair minded person here wants to be as well educated on the subject as possible and hear testimony from all sides.
Peace and love
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Newbie2
Guest
Actually, he is an advocate of homosexual marriage. I don’t have the link handy, but I read an article about him in the Detroit papers (don’t remember if it was the News or Freep).
I find it interesting that he has no credentials, no scriptural training and is not fluent in biblical languages. That doesn’t necessarily mean he hasn’t done his homework, but I find it interesting that people are taking his word for what has or has not been “misinterpreted” over hundreds of years of serious biblical scholarly work.
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The_GreyPilgrim
Guest
First and foremost, you must clarify what definition of “love” you are using. The Bible’s use of love is the Greek “agape” which is sacrificial, self-giving love. Followed by “philio” which is brotherly love, and lastly “eros” which is lust.
The term “loving homosexual” is a contradiction of terms. Because you are not loving the person for their person of loving God by loving that person, but you are loving their homosexuality. The person and God are secondary. The homosexual attraction is primary and the end of the “relationship”; the other person is simply a means to achieve the end. It is not complementary nor is it open to life.
Secondly, if “love is the fulfillment of the law”, and the Law said that homosexuality is a sin, then homosexual acts are not acts of Love and are therefore sinful.
If sin wasn’t in some way appealing we would never sin, that’s the trick. Sin is always appealing at first but is ultimately empty because it is always sought as an end.
Finally, no one who is addicted to something wants to be told that what they’re addicted to is destroying them. And those who are addictied to something are hardly objective towards their addiction.
(I know I’ll get a ton of slack for this but here it goes.)
Watching a professed “homosexual” justify homosexuality to me is like watching a herione addict justify sticking needles in his toes so as to get high. Its a rationalization to justify what they do because they love what they do. Theory always follows from what is first practiced; moral sensualism precedes epistemological sensualism. He’s “blinded” by his love (homosexuality), so he ignores absolute Love(God).
And by ignoring absolute Love(God) you will always divorce yourself from absolute Truth(God).
That is the “spiral of sin” that Paul speaks of in Romans 1. When we put other things in place of God-such as their need for the feelings that come from committing homosexual acts-then you set what you love over and above God. You indentify yourself with what you do, you become what you do.
Hence they call themselves “homosexuals” and insist upon “gay pride” and insist that they were “born this way”. Not all idolatry has to do with making statues of cats or calfs. Idolatry is simply putting any created thing-and human sexuality IS a created thing-over and above God.
If that’s not idolatry, I don’t know what is.
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Gb2G
Guest
That is why I asked for opinions on this video. Is what he is saying pertaining to the interpretations of the biblical passages on homosexuality scripturally correct???
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Gb2G
Guest
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Gb2G
Guest
. The homosexual attraction is primary and the end of the “relationship”; the other person is simply a means to achieve the end. It is not complementary nor is it open to life.
What if their souls are complementary and their biological bodies are secondary and they adopt medically fragile children and give them a loving (agape) enviroment in which to grow.
What if they love God with their whole hearts and try to serve Him the best they can???
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. ; moral sensualism precedes epistemological sensualism. (homosexuality),
huh?
Please forgive my lack of having this quote thing down yet
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What if their souls are complementary and their biological bodies are secondary and they adopt medically fragile children and give them a loving (agape) enviroment in which to grow.
What if they love God with their whole hearts and try to serve Him the best they can???
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. ; moral sensualism precedes epistemological sensualism. (homosexuality),
huh?
Please forgive my lack of having this quote thing down yet
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Gb2G
Guest
Either everything is grey or everything is white,how come?
meaning the quotes not the subject matter hee hee hee
Oh, it kind’ve worked this time.
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Dymphna82
Guest
I’m starting to feel like we need to have just one thread to cover everything homosexual, since the topic seems to be everywhere now. :banghead:
My perspective is…God is against it and the Church is against it, so I’m against it. Full stop. There’s always going to be non-Christians, Protestants, and wayward Catholics with their own interpretation of the Bible. If I can’t trust the Church, then I’m certainly not going to rely on anybody else to tell me what the Bible’s truth is.
It would be sweet for me to take the Bible and interpret things my way and to my advantage, but that’s not how it works.
My perspective is…God is against it and the Church is against it, so I’m against it. Full stop. There’s always going to be non-Christians, Protestants, and wayward Catholics with their own interpretation of the Bible. If I can’t trust the Church, then I’m certainly not going to rely on anybody else to tell me what the Bible’s truth is.
It would be sweet for me to take the Bible and interpret things my way and to my advantage, but that’s not how it works.
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cargau
Guest
Real LOVE never abides or tolerates sin. Loving a neighbor ultimately means doing what is necessary for one to get to heaven. Sometimes, it has to be tough love. And, sometimess acquiesence in the name of love (tolerance) is not love at all, but self righteousness masquerading as kindness and compassion.
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karoleck
Guest
Either everything is grey or everything is white,how come?
meaning the quotes not the subject matter hee hee hee
Oh, it kind’ve worked this time.
Greetings Gb2G,may the peace,joy and the fellowship of Christ be with you.You are obviously searching for The Truth on this subject, straight from the Scriptures.Naturally The Catholic Catechism of The Catholic Church sums up all the issues in no.2357 and chastity in 2359.
However,just judging from your posts , I sense that you prefer maybe a protestant biblical perspective(please correct me if I have got the wrong impression).Here is a wonderful link to a separated christian scholar(Dr.Scott Lively) who has offered this book and also a free download of what he has researched ;just from a Biblical faith based conclusion on the matters that your video link has raised.Naturally as a catholic,I regard that my Church,founded on the Rock of St.Peter is the sole custodian and interpreter of The Bible.
Here is a copy of one of his headings in the book called Redeeming The Rainbow.
SECTION ONE: THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA
Chapter 1: Pro-Family Answers to Common Questions About Homosexuality and the “Gay” Agenda
Chapter 2 Understanding Homosexuality Biblically
The “Gay” Agenda from the Christian World View
A Review of Homosexuality in the Bible
Early Church Authorities
Biblical Law vs. Civil Law Regarding “Sodomy”
Link below–free book offer–free pdf download also!
massresistance.org/docs/gen/09b/Redeeming_rainbow/index.html
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stewstew03
Guest
I think that a generation or two down the road, our belief that the practice of homosexuality is inherently immoral will be widely regarded as “hateful” (and therefore lead to charges of hate speech). To be sure, the Catholic view is already considered “hateful” in small circles (liberals, Hollywood, etc.), but will turn into something more. All we need to do is look to our neighbor up north (Canada’s hate speech laws). From there, I think it will ultimately lead to the Bible being labeled as “hateful propaganda…”
Maranatha!
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 16:22[/BIBLEDRB]
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Newbie2
Guest
Didn’t watch it, but based on his conclusions, how could they be?
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Gb2G
Guest
Peace and joy and the fellowship of Christ be also with you.
Thank you for the links, but no I do not prefer a protestant biblical perspective and if I were not so lazy I would go to my large catechism or the little one that explains the big one and to my St. Joseph edition of the bible (I’ll admit none of them are dog-eared from overuse) and read all the helps on the verses in question. However, I found this wonderful website where all my brothers and sisters in Christ, that includes everyone who posts here, are more than willing to tell me everything I should know on the subject.
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