The Gender of God

  • Thread starter Thread starter ManRay
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
When I use the word refer…I’m trying to show how scripture also uses feminine attributes such as Isaiah 49:14 -But Zion said,* the Lord* has forsaken me, and my Lord has forgotten me. :15 Can a woman forget her suckling child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yea, they may forget, yet I will not forget thee.

God is also given non human attributes in the bible ( I believe it’s feathers, or wings or something) which makes sense because I would say that God is nonhuman?? Physical attributes such as sexual organs, etc… are what defines gender for us - people. Does god have sexual organs? Why? That makes no sense.
Your citing the passage from Isiah 19:14 clearly shows the dangers of the semi-literate in quoting the Bible. One can impute meaning into a phrase that doesn’t really exist. Obviously you do not recognize a metaphor when you read it!
In the whole Old Testament, beginning with Genesis, G*d is always refered to as masculine. Likewise in the New Testament. Do not allow your religious beliefs and your soul to be corrupted by 20th Century feminism, which is a fad that has been largely discredited in the US, Canada, and Europe…and not only by male critics and scholars, but female ones.
Of course, all of this is of no import to you if you are on this site just to argue!
 
So is there a special definition of what being a male is in regards to the holy? Where are gods parents? Does god have sexual organs? Does god have Chromosomes? If not, then do you consider god male because ancient people called him male? This goes back to my post as to how people understand, and know things. If you write a paper on what it means to be male, and all it says was that “hey that’s what it said in this other book I have, and uhm - just because I said so”…you’ll fail, and fail miserably. But not in this world - it somehow makes perfect sense. How does that work?
 
Your citing the passage from Isiah 19:14 clearly shows the dangers of the semi-literate in quoting the Bible. One can impute meaning into a phrase that doesn’t really exist. Obviously you do not recognize a metaphor when you read it!
In the whole Old Testament, beginning with Genesis, G*d is always refered to as masculine. Likewise in the New Testament. Do not allow your religious beliefs and your soul to be corrupted by 20th Century feminism, which is a fad that has been largely discredited in the US, Canada, and Europe…and not only by male critics and scholars, but female ones.
Of course, all of this is of no import to you if you are on this site just to argue!
I already addressed this, and the thread title is “The Gender of God” I obviously cannot know whether god is male or female. I would assume that god is neither, unless I want to endow our creator with certain human attributes, which seems to be getting it backwards. That would be limiting. God is the first cause correct? God did not evolve or grow into a thing. God did not have parents. This all flies in the face of logic, and what our understanding of what gender is.
 
I already addressed this, and the thread title is “The Gender of God” I obviously cannot know whether god is male or female. I would assume that god is neither, unless I want to endow our creator with certain human attributes, which seems to be getting it backwards. That would be limiting. God is the first cause correct? God did not evolve or grow into a thing. God did not have parents. This all flies in the face of logic, and what our understanding of what gender is.
You’re right, of course – God isn’t ‘male’ or ‘female’ in the way that a physical being is; to say that God is engendered, and to mean it in the way that we mean it about ourselves, just doesn’t fit right. Yet, there is something fitting about identifying God in masculine terms. Our physical engenderedness itself is a reflection of something in the nature of God – our physicality acts analogously to the way God acts.

So, in a way, when we refer to God in masculine terms – picking up on the cues we see in Scripture and from the words of Jesus – we are, in a sense, referring back to the mystery of creation. Our embodiedness reflects truths about God, and in return, we use terms that are applicable to our embodiedness to talk about God. One way of looking at it might be that we ourselves are like an imperfect reflection of God, and when we try to describe God, we use aspects of that reflection to help us express our understanding of God.

Hope this helps…!

Blessings,

G.
 
You’re right, of course – God isn’t ‘male’ or ‘female’ in the way that a physical being is; to say that God is engendered, and to mean it in the way that we mean it about ourselves, just doesn’t fit right. Yet, there is something fitting about identifying God in masculine terms. Our physical engenderedness itself is a reflection of something in the nature of God – our physicality acts analogously to the way God acts.

So, in a way, when we refer to God in masculine terms – picking up on the cues we see in Scripture and from the words of Jesus – we are, in a sense, referring back to the mystery of creation. Our embodiedness reflects truths about God, and in return, we use terms that are applicable to our embodiedness to talk about God. One way of looking at it might be that we ourselves are like an imperfect reflection of God, and when we try to describe God, we use aspects of that reflection to help us express our understanding of God.

Hope this helps…!

Blessings,

G.
We’ll only know the answers to these questions when we see God face to face rather than “through a glass, darkly” (1 Cor 13:12)
 
I already addressed this, and the thread title is “The Gender of God” I obviously cannot know whether god is male or female. I would assume that god is neither, unless I want to endow our creator with certain human attributes, which seems to be getting it backwards. That would be limiting. God is the first cause correct? God did not evolve or grow into a thing. God did not have parents. This all flies in the face of logic, and what our understanding of what gender is.
Are you familiar with Thomas Aquinas’ Natural Law…? The laws of nature were created with with the intention that they lead into Gods Eternal Law. Man will live eternally, with his material body intact. Jesus will too. I believe that man looks like God in shape and form, but comprised of something completely different. Just my opinion of course.
 
From the Catechism,

In no way is God in man’s image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.” (CCC 370)

So there you have what Catholic’s believe, that God is neither man nor woman.

Jesus refers to God as a Father because of his relation to us. God pursues us. ManRay, you asked if he is then like a stalker. He does pursue us, but respectfully, and never forces his will on us. Think of how traditionaly a man asks a woman to marry him and not the other way around.

JPII says this in Mulieris dignitatem,
“The Bridegroom is the one who loves. The Bride is loved: it is she who receives love, in order to love in return.”
Also the church only allows women to progress so far. In a world where people are considered equal in matters of intellect, vocation, etc…why wouldn’t some of these ideas have been readily apparent thousands of years ago in regards to scripture, and why did it take secular positioning for it to reach fruition currently, for example a woman’s right to vote??
The highest ranking the Church can give someone is that of saint. There may be more female than male saints-I’m not sure. If you are refering to the priesthood being all male, that has nothing to do with matters of intellect. This has to do with men only being called to serve in this particular way. Sin came into the world through a man (Adam), only men can atone for this by offering the sacrifice of the mass. Someone might then say that the pope is making all the decisions and he can only be a man. The answer to that is the pope’s action concerning infalliable teaching are guided by the Holy Spirit, which is genderless. Hope this helps!🙂
 
This is exactly what I am talking about. I must have not been clear. God is mostly referred in the masculine, although we can argue about Isaiah, or whether or not god is also referred to having feathers or wings. I’m just showing small instances where there is either a feminine reference or something non human. But yes you are correct, God is mostly referred to in the masculine. Which leads me to the point of what we as human beings know, and how we know someone is either male or female. Male and females possess certain HUMAN attributes. This is because we were birthed from another human, and so on. This is a biological reality. We are the PRODUCT of creation. I would liken it to the same as when referring to a boat or ship in the feminine. This is anthropomorphism on a smaller scale.
How could it be possible to refer to god as having a particular sex when that would limit god to our understanding of gender as it relates to the human species? Does god have Chromosomes?
Did you read what I wrote:
“Of course God is neither male nor female, but he reveals himself as male because he created male and female to mirror in some fashion his relationship to us. Everything in the universe is in some fashion a mirror of divine reality. The reality existed before the mirrors were created to hint at the reality.”
 
Did you read what I wrote:
“Of course God is neither male nor female, but he reveals himself as male because he created male and female to mirror in some fashion his relationship to us. Everything in the universe is in some fashion a mirror of divine reality. The reality existed before the mirrors were created to hint at the reality.”
Wouldn’t that reasoning end up making the female ontologically inferior to the male? That would seem to be the implication of identifying the creator as male and the creation as female, since the creation is by its very nature always infinitely inferior to the creator.
 
Wouldn’t that reasoning end up making the female ontologically inferior to the male? That would seem to be the implication of identifying the creator as male and the creation as female, since the creation is by its very nature always infinitely inferior to the creator.
No.

God fashioned the female form from part of the male. In no way is a man the creator, he is still the clay with which God builds. The female is created by God just as the male was.
 
I don’t have my Bible in front of me, but I always thought Divine Wisdom was considered a personification of God and is referred to as female. I could be wrong, though.
 
No.

God fashioned the female form from part of the male. In no way is a man the creator, he is still the clay with which God builds. The female is created by God just as the male was.
I guess I am having trouble with this part of the post in question: “he created male and female to mirror in some fashion his relationship to us.” In what way(s) is the relationship between God and us mirrored in the relationship between male and female? Part of the relationship between us and God is Creator (God)/creation, which necessarily involves superiority/inferiority. My question had to do with whether THAT aspect of superiority/inferiority (since a creator is always higher than what is created) is also involved, and God identifies as male. I’m sorry I’m not articulating this as well as I should, but the question’s been bothering me.

ETA: I am not an advocate of a gender neutral God, and always do refer to Him with masculine terms. I’m just wondering about how the above analogy should be taken, and what aspects of our relationship with God “count” for purposes of the “mirroring.”
 
Received some really good answers! It went from God is of course male - all the way to a quote from the catechism stating that God is neither. God is spirit (I defer to this explanation). Good stuff. Thank you. If I dug a little deeper into my own opinion, I would argue it was the God of a certain geographical location (Israel). It was a Man’s world at that time, and women were pretty much chattel. So as men of this time, they would surely describe something powerful as man. This would fall in line to the many examples of anthropomorphism in the bible as far as I can tell. Of course the church(catechism) peels the onion and gets to some deeper meaning. All good stuff!
 
God the Father is a Spirit; so is God the Holy Spirit.

God the Son came to us as a human male and He is quite definitely masculine. . .plus, He (the Son) revealed the Father to us specifically AS ‘The Father", not "the Father and Mother’ or the "Doesn’t have a gender’.
P.S. The Second Person of the Trinity, The Son is also a Spirit. When he assumed a human nature, he existed both in that human nature and in the Godhead.👍
 
God the Father reveals Himself to us as a male, but it is true that as pure Spirit He is technically genderless.

Since God the Son is both man and God He is most definitely fully male since there is no division between His humanity and His divinity.
 
It has to do with the reality that God is the pursuer, and we are the pursued. God proposes, we say yes or no. God is the groom, we are the bride.

Note that the Catholic (and Orthodox) Churches consider a female, Mary, as the most perfect human ever created, and the very Queen of Heaven (over all other creatures, human and angels).
Not really.

Jesus was the most perfect human (according to Catholic teaching).
For He was both Man and God, and only God is perfect (according to Catholicism).
 
Originally Posted by snarflemike
Did you read what I wrote:
“Of course God is neither male nor female, but he reveals himself as male because he created male and female to mirror in some fashion his relationship to us. Everything in the universe is in some fashion a mirror of divine reality. The reality existed before the mirrors were created to hint at the reality.”
**Wouldn’t that reasoning end up making the female ontologically inferior to the male? ** That would seem to be the implication of identifying the creator as male and the creation as female, since the creation is by its very nature always infinitely inferior to the creator.
Yes, and some Protestants take that line of thought to its logical conclusion and argue as much (here’s a link to a good example: urbanpioneering.com/Volume12/femininemain.htm).
 
From what I’ve read in the bible God is often referred to as both genders. This may have been discussed before, but I am curious as to why many Christians refer to God in the masculine? There seems to be a psychological/philosophical undercurrent regarding the tone of masculinity throughout the church, and was curious as to how the church approaches this. Is this simply an anthropomorphic tendency of man, or is there more to it? God created man in his own image. We take man to be the catchall for man, and woman obviously, but how does that jive with Eve coming from Adam? Also the church only allows women to progress so far. In a world where people are considered equal in matters of intellect, vocation, etc…why wouldn’t some of these ideas have been readily apparent thousands of years ago in regards to scripture, and why did it take secular positioning for it to reach fruition currently, for example a woman’s right to vote??
One, the Western World hardly regards women as equal or symmetrical to men, hence the ballyhoo over treating females as “ladies.” Contemporary society is confused about biological sex and gender correspondence. What I mean by that is that it is utterly contradictory - illogical - to propose females should box males or play American football against males or fight in combat in infantry units to only turn around and tell males they need to treat those same females as “ladies.”

Gender is largely a social construct. Therefore, you can be male but have opposite gender, that of a female. We call males like this at times “sissies.”

My point is if you can not hook, jab, bite, and pull bayonet on a “lady” lest it be immoral, then females ought not be cops or grunts or boxers.

But more to your inquiry: The excepted Jesus the three persons of the Trinity are spirit and never took on the matter form of animal human life. The reasons Catholics have long referred to the first person of the Trinity as “God the Father” is because male humans (and females) are said within Catholicism to take on the female role in relation to God. Think of insemination - but in the spiritual sense.

A number of monks during the Middle Ages wrote very homoerotic literature about themselves in relation to God.

But the role and place of Mary is very unique in Catholicism/Orthodoxy. I would challenge anyone to find her equivalent in any religion on earth. They won’t find it. Not in Buddhism or in the avatars of the one God within Hinduism. Actually, Hinduism probably has female avatars that come the closest to rivaling the Virgin Mary.

Points on the Virgin Mary:

#1. The New Eve (therefore, the salvation of mankind is led and depends on women not men).

#2. An historical woman that was a human person (Jesus was a human but had 2 natures, his personhood was divine not human).

#3. The most perfect human person (female; a she) to ever exist.

#4. The Mother of God. And God came through a woman’s most intimate parts regarded by Orthodox Jews of centuries ago as disgusting (Buddhism also regards the female vagina as sickening and beneath that of enlightened and good men).

#5. She needed no man to have sex with. She was in a certain sense the ultimate feminist ideal. No sex with human men and gives birth to God.

#6. Her titles are numerous.

#7. She brought as many (numerically) Amerindians in Mexico into Catholicism as the number of Europeans that left the Church in the Western European Reformation.

As for female advancement in the Church. That is true to some extent. At some point females to hit a wall. But people misunderstand the “advancements” and those odds for males within the Church. I’ve only known one priest that was ever raised to the office of Bishop. And it’s probably better odds I’ll become the President of the United States than he’ll become the Pope in Rome.

Becoming a nun or priest or monk or brother or even a celibate lay person are not very attractive to most men and women in the world - especially those from developed nations. Let’s see: most All American teenage boys don’t aspire to go through 4 years of college and probably 4 or 5 years of seminary training just to vow poverty (relative poverty), celibacy, and obedience to their Bishop.

Basically, becoming a priest is like an American boy volunteering for the U.S. Army then volunteering for the Army Rangers. The Army Generals and officer corps comes from out the ranks of the Army. Now, if some fat body lay Catholic wants to become the Pope of Rome tell him to do the metaphorical Army Ranger sacrifice. Walk the miles of hell. Until that time he armchair quarterback and complain.

Semper Fi.

Former U.S. Jarhead.
 
As for female advancement in the Church. That is true to some extent. At some point females to hit a wall. But people misunderstand the “advancements” and those odds for males within the Church. I’ve only known one priest that was ever raised to the office of Bishop. And it’s probably better odds I’ll become the President of the United States than he’ll become the Pope in Rome.

Becoming a nun or priest or monk or brother or even a celibate lay person are not very attractive to most men and women in the world - especially those from developed nations. Let’s see: most All American teenage boys don’t aspire to go through 4 years of college and probably 4 or 5 years of seminary training just to vow poverty (relative poverty), celibacy, and obedience to their Bishop.

Basically, becoming a priest is like an American boy volunteering for the U.S. Army then volunteering for the Army Rangers. The Army Generals and officer corps comes from out the ranks of the Army. Now, if some fat body lay Catholic wants to become the Pope of Rome tell him to do the metaphorical Army Ranger sacrifice. Walk the miles of hell. Until that time he armchair quarterback and complain.

Semper Fi.

Former U.S. Jarhead.
Although I agree with your point that advancing in the church hierarcy doesn’t seem to be something that people in general are found wanting, I disagree with your point that I’ve bolded. There is a hierarchy in the church and at the top of that are saints. Consider this link with short video. Cardinal Dolan discusses this issue at 3:15-3:47

gloria.tv/?media=272602
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top