The General Judgement

[o_mlly]

I recently heard a homily by Fr. Chad Ripperger about the Final Judgement. In it he mentioned that the judgement will actually take quite a very long time. He said it will be this way essentially because God will reveal the sins/good works of every single person who ever lived one at a time, and everyone will basically be sitting around waiting their turn.

Does anybody have ideas about this? Anyone heard this as well? Sources?

At the general or final judgement, only those (unlucky enough?) still living may be in suspense as to their eternal disposition (CCC#1051).
“He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead”

All others will know with certainty their eternal fate (CCC #1022).

We will have knowledge of one’s own and all others good and evil acts (CCC#1039). How we will come to know these things is unknown. We may as now “learn” sequentially or God may infuse the knowledge as He did with His angels.

 

[FrDavid96]

I have listened to the Fr. Ripperger talk in question before, and I can assure you that it did not come off the way you seem to have taken it. The point which he made was that at the Last Judgement, every person’s actions will be revealed, in accordance with Divine Justice, and that this will probably take a very long time. He didn’t say a word about a “waiting line”.

I’m just reading what the OP posted, which included the words “everyone sitting around waiting their turn.”

And if you read my posts, you’ll see that I never-said-he-said-it. I merely cautioned against anyone saying it.

I used either very generic words such as “clergy” or “this kind of talk” or I used myself as an example.

If you can find where I said anything about any specific priest in one of my posts, please show it to me.

 

[FrDavid96]

Yes. Father Ripperger says that according to the Fathers, the general judgement will take a long time. He doesn’t say which Church Fathers he is referencing.

He goes on to say that those who are saved will be filled with joy. They will be celebrating God’s justice and mercy. The saved will be enjoying their resurrected bodies, not impatiently waiting their turn, however, those who are damned will find the experience exhausting.

At that point, time (kronos) simply will not exist. Neither will other measurements like distance or temperature, as they all belong to the physical world.

At the General Judgement everything will be revealed, every single little thing, every fact, every act. But time itself (as a form of measurement, kronos) will simply not exist.

The only “time” will be kairos (not kronos) which means the ‘time’ of God, the reign of God, and that will be to an unending eternity without measure.

 

[MtnDwellar]

At that point, time (kronos) simply will not exist. Neither will other measurements like distance or temperature, as they all belong to the physical world.

At the General Judgement everything will be revealed, every single little thing, every fact, every act. But time itself (as a form of measurement, kronos) will simply not exist.

The only “time” will be kairos (not kronos) which means the ‘time’ of God, the reign of God, and that will be to an unending eternity without measure.

Yes. The talk was not about the existence of time after the end of time. We were not given accurate references to find out what he really meant.

The implication is that time is somehow restored after our bodies are resurrected and a new earth is established. I don’t know if that’s what he meant to say. Could that be true?

 

[FrDavid96]

Yes. The talk was not about the existence of time after the end of time. We were not given accurate references to find out what he really meant.

The implication is that time is somehow restored after our bodies are resurrected and a new earth is established. I don’t know if that’s what he meant to say. Could that be true?

I don’t know exactly what he said, much less what he meant, either. I only know what I can read posted on this thread.

What we know as a matter of our Christian faith is that once the end of the world happens, then time (kronos) will cease to exist. To put it bluntly, there won’t be any clocks or calendars in heaven.

As Christians, we have two words for time, both based on Greek.

Kronos (think chronograph) is time on the clock or calendar. It’s a physical measurement that just won’t exist once God ends this earth.

Kairos means “God’s time.” It’s difficult to define, but it means such things as the “reign of God” or the period of God’s reign. It doesn’t mean the time on God’s clock (as I said it’s difficult to explain). An example would be that when we attend Mass, we are entering into Kairos. At Mass, we participate in the Last Supper and Passion, we are in that kairos-time, even though the event happened 2,000 years ago according to kronos, it is happening right here and we are part of it. We aren’t looking backwards and remembering, but instead we are participating and we are ‘there.’

 

[dshix]

I’m just reading what the OP posted, which included the words “everyone sitting around waiting their turn.”

And if you read my posts, you’ll see that I never-said-he-said-it. I merely cautioned against anyone saying it.

I used either very generic words such as “clergy” or “this kind of talk” or I used myself as an example.

If you can find where I said anything about any specific priest in one of my posts, please show it to me.

In the context of the original post, it is fair to say that most readers could see your statement, “I am very leery about this kind of talk”, and the statements which followed it, as being directed at the original post.

As such, the implication is clear that you had taken your impression of the talk in question from the original poster’s description of it, which I do not believe did it justice.

I understand (and agree) that your posts were well crafted to avoid making any direct accusation against any person in particular - however, considering the nature of online communication, and considering the context, it is more likely than not that readers would perceive your words to be directed at the talk in question, in particular.

 

[omgriley]

I’m just reading what the OP posted, which included the words “everyone sitting around waiting their turn.”

And if you read my posts, you’ll see that I never-said-he-said-it. I merely cautioned against anyone saying it.

I used either very generic words such as “clergy” or “this kind of talk” or I used myself as an example.

If you can find where I said anything about any specific priest in one of my posts, please show it to me.

How about the part where you said you wished you had thought of the “God taking numbers at the deli” line? Not really helping the conversation, Father.

Have you ever heard of Fr. Ripperger? He’s actually a quite distinguished and intelligent exorcist. My point about “waiting their turn” is something he himself conveys about the Judgement… As another poster pointed out, Ripperger stated that the Resurrected Just will be just fine with standing around for years, as they’ll never tire. But the damned will be in constant exhaustion from the ordeal.

Obviously your thoughts on this topic of eschatology are of discouragement. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[MtnDwellar]

I don’t know exactly what he said, much less what he meant, either. I only know what I can read posted on this thread.

What we know as a matter of our Christian faith is that once the end of the world happens, then time (kronos) will cease to exist. To put it bluntly, there won’t be any clocks or calendars in heaven.

As Christians, we have two words for time, both based on Greek.

Kronos (think chronograph) is time on the clock or calendar. It’s a physical measurement that just won’t exist once God ends this earth.

Kairos means “God’s time.” It’s difficult to define, but it means such things as the “reign of God” or the period of God’s reign. It doesn’t mean the time on God’s clock (as I said it’s difficult to explain). An example would be that when we attend Mass, we are entering into Kairos. At Mass, we participate in the Last Supper and Passion, we are in that kairos-time, even though the event happened 2,000 years ago according to kronos, it is happening right here and we are part of it. We aren’t looking backwards and remembering, but instead we are participating and we are ‘there.’

Exactly what he said can be found here during the last few minutes: youtube.com/watch?v=xH-7RYtS-VQ

 

[FrDavid96]

In the context of the original post, it is fair to say that most readers could see your statement, “I am very leery about this kind of talk”, and the statements which followed it, as being directed at the original post.

Those words were carefully chosen. I intentionally said “this kind of talk” rather than say “I’m leery about what [insert name] said.”

As such, the implication is clear that you had taken your impression of the talk in question from the original poster’s description of it, which I do not believe did it justice.

That’s beyond my control.

I understand (and agree) that your posts were well crafted to avoid making any direct accusation against any person in particular - however, considering the nature of online communication, and considering the context, it is more likely than not that readers would perceive your words to be directed at the talk in question, in particular.

I can only go so far. I try to be careful. At the same time though, I cannot anticipate every possible misunderstanding of what I write.

I have a personal rule to avoid using proper names when I post online, unless it’s unavoidable or painfully obvious. That’s served me well because of exactly a situation like this one. I feel it’s a good habit.

Again, I can only go so far, but I do try to be careful.

 

[omgriley]

I don’t know exactly what he said, much less what he meant, either. I only know what I can read posted on this thread.

What we know as a matter of our Christian faith is that once the end of the world happens, then time (kronos) will cease to exist. To put it bluntly, there won’t be any clocks or calendars in heaven.

As Christians, we have two words for time, both based on Greek.

Kronos (think chronograph) is time on the clock or calendar. It’s a physical measurement that just won’t exist once God ends this earth.

Kairos means “God’s time.” It’s difficult to define, but it means such things as the “reign of God” or the period of God’s reign. It doesn’t mean the time on God’s clock (as I said it’s difficult to explain). An example would be that when we attend Mass, we are entering into Kairos. At Mass, we participate in the Last Supper and Passion, we are in that kairos-time, even though the event happened 2,000 years ago according to kronos, it is happening right here and we are part of it. We aren’t looking backwards and remembering, but instead we are participating and we are ‘there.’

Where exactly is the teaching that time will end at the beginning of the Final Judgement, as opposed to at the end of it?

Father, even if it does end at the beginning, many theologians speculate that we will still experience some kind of time progression in the next life. Would this not include the Final Judgement?

 

[MtnDwellar]

Where exactly is the teaching that time will end at the beginning of the Final Judgement, as opposed to at the end of it?

Father, even if it does end at the beginning, many theologians speculate that we will still experience some kind of time progression in the next life. Would this not include the Final Judgement?

Interesting question. I suppose the argument is that time is a material construct and when the material world ceases to exist, then no more time.

 

[FrDavid96]

Where exactly is the teaching that time will end at the beginning of the Final Judgement, as opposed to at the end of it?

Father, even if it does end at the beginning, many theologians speculate that we will still experience some kind of time progression in the next life. Would this not include the Final Judgement?

The Catholic teaching is that the Final Judgement will be one single “moment” not a period of time (again kronos)

It is address in the overall Catholic faith that there will not be anything like what some call a ‘rapture’ or others ‘millennialism.’

It’s also rather simple. Once God ends this earth (meaning every physical thing) then there won’t be any clocks. There won’t be any time exactly because time is a physical measurement. We won’t have measurements of distance or temperature or any other way that we currently quantify the physical world.

In any case, the very concept of time is our experience of this physical world. Even if there will be some sort of “divine timing” (to coin a phrase) it will not be the same as our current experience of time. To put that another way, it will be completely un-comparable to our present experience of time; therefore there’s no point in trying to imagine what it might be like.

 

[FrDavid96]

Interesting question. I suppose the argument is that time is a material construct and when the material world ceases to exist, then no more time.

Exactly.

 

[o_mlly]

Interesting question. I suppose the argument is that time is a material construct and when the material world ceases to exist, then no more time.

Tis a mystery for certain. But we believe our material bodies will reunite with our souls in eternity.
1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in*** body*** and soul.
Now, what could be more pleasant than contemplating how the Lord will do that! A body that is nowhere at no time.

 

[Nelka]

At that point, time (kronos) simply will not exist. Neither will other measurements like distance or temperature, as they all belong to the physical world.

At the General Judgement everything will be revealed, every single little thing, every fact, every act. But time itself (as a form of measurement, kronos) will simply not exist.

The only “time” will be kairos (not kronos) which means the ‘time’ of God, the reign of God, and that will be to an unending eternity without measure.

Interesting.