The Gentle Art of Apologetics by Michelle Arnold

[Peter_J]

I look at CAF as a kind of ‘training ground’ for armchair apologetics.

Better armchair apologetics than armchair quarterbacking, as I always say. (Well, starting now.)

 

[Wannano]

I look at CAF as a kind of ‘training ground’ for armchair apologetics. I forces you to give a certain type of answer, in a certain way, that in the real world you might not.

Not speaking of you personally necessarily but you are confirming in my mind what I have begun to wonder.

 

[Wannano]

I think CAF provides a lot of info I don’t come across in real life. But as far as a training ground, we all need to keep in mind we are dealing with real people online. They are not just influenced by our facts and arguments, but more so by whether they perceive us as caring about people, especially them.

For me you hit the nail on the head. I have seen numerous very astute posters come on the scene and get blasted for not having the Catholic understanding. If the Church wants to attract people to the one true Church it takes more than snide comments about Protestantism and exclamations of doctrine in big angry looking red letters to convince an outsider that he should want to be a part of it. People will only perceive the Catholic Church as an attractive loving community of believers if it is genuinely that.

 

[JustaServant]

Not speaking of you personally necessarily but you are confirming in my mind what I have begun to wonder.

Indeed. It takes some maturity to receive constructive criticism. One of the reasons I don’t participate in the endless Luther threads is that Catholics hold Lutherans to historical positions that no longer represent them in the modern world. If the object is simply to ‘sink the opposition’, how will they respect your POV?
Now, having said that, there are groups that don’t seem to last long here. JWs, Mormons, and fundamentalists.

 

[commenter]

I have seen numerous very astute posters come on the scene and get blasted for not having the Catholic understanding. If the Church wants to attract people to the one true Church it takes more than snide comments about Protestantism and exclamations of doctrine in big angry looking red letters to convince an outsider that he should want to be a part of it. People will only perceive the Catholic Church as an attractive loving community of believers if it is genuinely that.

I agree. Some people (including me, in my off moments) approach CAF with boxing gloves on, thinking we are knocking out a point of view. We fail to pay attention to the person, fail to learn genuine insights they have to offer.

On the other hand…

I would add the word “intelligent” to the bolded phrase above.
You have to remember Catholic apologetics was hushed up after the 1960s and is still almost banned from many parishes, schools, and colleges, as well as banned from all secular outlets. 2 generations were told over and over this one quote which St. Francis likely did not say: “Preach constantly. When necessary, use words”, while ignoring much of the words Francis is confirmed to have preached and taught, recorded by people who knew him.

Let’s say there are 10 Catholics trying to “do apologetics” in some fashion. You and I are concerned about the 1 who is aggressive and annoying. But I am looking at the other 990 who have been silenced by the secular relativistic culture.

 

[Wannano]

Indeed. It takes some maturity to receive constructive criticism. One of the reasons I don’t participate in the endless Luther threads is that Catholics hold Lutherans to historical positions that no longer represent them in the modern world. If the object is simply to ‘sink the opposition’, how will they respect your POV?
Now, having said that, there are groups that don’t seem to last long here. JWs, Mormons, and fundamentalists.

Thanks for a great response. Just a note of interest, those 3 groups are the ones where you will find the idea that they are the one true church.

 

[Wannano]

I agree. Some people (including me, in my off moments) approach CAF with boxing gloves on, thinking we are knocking out a point of view. We fail to pay attention to the person, fail to learn genuine insights they have to offer.

On the other hand…

I would add the word “intelligent” to the bolded phrase above.
You have to remember Catholic apologetics was hushed up after the 1960s and is still almost banned from many parishes, schools, and colleges, as well as banned from all secular outlets. 2 generations were told over and over this one quote which St. Francis likely did not say: “Preach constantly. When necessary, use words”, while ignoring much of the words Francis is confirmed to have preached and taught, recorded by people who knew him.

Let’s say there are 10 Catholics trying to “do apologetics” in some fashion. You and I are concerned about the 1 who is aggressive and annoying. But I am looking at the other 990 who have been silenced by the secular relativistic culture.

I was not familiar with the lack of teaching since the 1960s. That might also help explain the lack of zeal among many Catholics my age (65) that I know personally. All churches make mistakes and I am hoping this all gets corrected. Some words are always necessary.

 

[commenter]

I was not familiar with the lack of teaching since the 1960s. That might also help explain the lack of zeal among many Catholics my age (65) that I know personally. All churches make mistakes and I am hoping this all gets corrected. Some words are always necessary.

When I was in high school - 1960s - they replaced a religion text that was pro apologetics with Diversity. The local Jesuit college got rid of its apologetics course, put in Comparative Religions instead. Countless Catholic publications and seminars suggested all doctrines are equal, all denominations equal, and Hinduism just as true as Christianity. Anyone who spoke up in some parishes or Catholic schools that the Trinity doctrine was true not just for Catholics but for all, including Muslims was atttacked as an egotist, rigid and narrow.

That is changing. Convents that oppose apologetics are almost extinct. Priests who oppose apologetics are retired, or close to it. Expect to see more laity - and religious - trying apologetics soon. And, yes, a few of us will, at first, be loudy, rowdy, closed ears but very open mouth. Growing pains.

 

[Wannano]

When I was in high school - 1960s - they replaced a religion text that was pro apologetics with Diversity. The local Jesuit college got rid of its apologetics course, put in Comparative Religions instead. Countless Catholic publications and seminars suggested all doctrines are equal, all denominations equal, and Hinduism just as true as Christianity. Anyone who spoke up in some parishes or Catholic schools that the Trinity doctrine was true not just for Catholics but for all, including Muslims was atttacked as an egotist, rigid and narrow.

That is changing. Convents that oppose apologetics are almost extinct. Priests who oppose apologetics are retired, or close to it. Expect to see more laity - and religious - trying apologetics soon. And, yes, a few of us will, at first, be loudy, rowdy, closed ears but very open mouth. Growing pains.

Thanks for being upfront and honest. I may be weird but knowing that all is not necessarily honkey and perfect makes your church more attractive and realistic because I inthe wisdom of my old age have come to realize that probably no institution has everything down pat without wrinkles.

 

[JustaServant]

Perhaps the absence of a certain Catholic poster here on CAF will give pause to other Catholics here to heed the advice of the OP.
Debating non-Catholic religions can be a challenge to be sure. But we have to beware of letting pride get in the way. When the objective is simply to ‘win’ a debate we discard logic for extreme pronouncements with the intent of ‘cornering’ the other person. When we do that we show a pure arrogance that never succeeds.

 

[Picky_Picky]

I certainly expect Christian posters to be full of zeal for their faith. The clue to me when I have gone off the rails is when I realise that I have posted something to please myself, when I start congratulating myself on my phrasing or my erudition or my wit (would you believe it? ) That’s just ***engaging with myself ***rather than with the other person.