The GF....

[Rewind4]

The Girl Friend.

We’ve been dating a month. She’s friendly, nice, sweet, cute, well-educated, smart, compassionate (volunteered around the world), knowledgeable in her Catholic faith.

I’m very steadfast in my Catholic beliefs and morals. I know she has fallen out of step with her Catholic faith because she says she is “progressive.”

When I first met her, then pursued her, then affirmed our relationship, I convinced myself that our differences wouldn’t bother us, and they really don’t. I just really liked her, and she liked me. We even talk about our differences non-judgmentally like the twenty-somethings we are, openly and respectfully.

Now, she seems to be very happy; she wants to see me all the time (she’s also in between jobs and thus has a lot of spare time). A guy like me should be head over heels.

Wrong. I’m being torn apart inside, filled with doubt. She is pro “woman’s’ rights”, including birth control and female’ priesthood (but not militant, nor is she overtly sensual in behavior). I know she has some very liberal friends that are the complete opposite of me.

They say opposites attract, and we did. I just feel like I’m a lousy guy since I don’t do all the things boyfriends do these days in the secular world. I also feel lousy because she and I don’t see eye to eye on everything, and although that doesn’t affect us now, it probably will in the future. It’s the general feeling that I’ve made a mistake.

Part of me wants to break it off, and the other part of me wants to try it out for a little bit more, that maybe she will see things in a different way, and for the fact I’ve been single for so long, it’s nice to have “date.”

But I don’t know.

 

[gretahope]

Since you’ve asked…

These kinds of differences are really significant, and if you think long-term…think of children being parented by people with quite a different set of perspectives. Parenting is rough stuff in the best of circumstances (I have a teenager, a middle schooler, and a 6 YO)…and ALL things get amplified during this time. Unity is paramount to endure things as a couple/family.

If only I had listened to my gut decades ago, like you’re saying your gut is trying to “tell” you…I would have saved myself so mucy heartache by discerning better and not rushing into something emotionally.

Maybe by just waiting and seeing a while AND listening to your gut (instincts, and in many cases, the Holy Spirit Himself) you will also see clearly w/o the emotional aspect clouding what is truly there with her/you.

Good for you for listening to that still, small voice:thumbsup:

 

[Apollos]

she says she is “progressive.” … I convinced myself that our differences wouldn’t bother us … non-judgmentally … I’m being torn apart inside … She is pro “woman’s’ rights”, including birth control and female’ priesthood … very liberal friends that are the complete opposite of me. … although that doesn’t affect us now, it probably will in the future. It’s the general feeling that I’ve made a mistake.

End the relationship. These are the red flags you will regret not having heeded.

Or, you can wait until children are involved and…

 

[PatriceA]

The Girl Friend.

We’ve been dating a month. She’s friendly, nice, sweet, cute, well-educated, smart, compassionate (volunteered around the world), knowledgeable in her Catholic faith.

I’m very steadfast in my Catholic beliefs and morals. I know she has fallen out of step with her Catholic faith because she says she is “progressive.”

When I first met her, then pursued her, then affirmed our relationship, I convinced myself that our differences wouldn’t bother us, and they really don’t. I just really liked her, and she liked me. We even talk about our differences non-judgmentally like the twenty-somethings we are, openly and respectfully.

Now, she seems to be very happy; she wants to see me all the time (she’s also in between jobs and thus has a lot of spare time). A guy like me should be head over heels.

Wrong. I’m being torn apart inside, filled with doubt. She is pro “woman’s’ rights”, including birth control and female’ priesthood (but not militant, nor is she overtly sensual in behavior). I know she has some very liberal friends that are the complete opposite of me.

They say opposites attract, and we did. I just feel like I’m a lousy guy since I don’t do all the things boyfriends do these days in the secular world. I also feel lousy because she and I don’t see eye to eye on everything, and although that doesn’t affect us now, it probably will in the future. It’s the general feeling that I’ve made a mistake.

Part of me wants to break it off, and the other part of me wants to try it out for a little bit more, that maybe she will see things in a different way, and for the fact I’ve been single for so long, it’s nice to have “date.”

But I don’t know.

I’m a little confused, what do you mean by you’re a lousy guy since you don’t do all the things boyfriends do these days in the secular world?

I don’t know…all the differences you stated are significant. Is there any indication she has given you that she would change her mind on these issues or is that only something you are hoping could happenl? My bet would be on she’s not going to change. The differences you have now, are the differences you are going to have a month, a year or even more between you two. You shouldn’t feel “lousy” for feeling or thinking differently than she does, especially on the important issues you have mentioned.

Staying in a relationship just because it gives you a guaranteed date does nothing to help your search for a future spouse. Its not fair to you, nor to your future spouse if marriage is your vocation. You can’t expect to find your marraige partner if you’re already filling the void with a temporary fix to the solution of being alone.

 

[1ke]

As she is now, she is NOT marriage material for a practicing Catholic.

The purpose of dating is to discern marriage. You’ve been discerning for a month and you have encountered a MAJOR obstacle to continuing in a relationship.

It is unlikely that she will change her belief system overnight, if ever. It is very foolish to date someone, get serious with them, and deepn one’s feelings towards someone on the possibility that some day they might change. This is extremely unwise.

Be friends. Stop dating.

Stop dancing around her heretical beliefs. Hit them straight on in a charitable fashion. DISCUSS them, and not from an “it’s ok for you to believe this” standpoint but from a “you are gravely outside Church teaching” standpoint.

Try to explain the Church’s teachings to her. Help her build virtue. If she’s having none of it, well, you have your answer.

 

[1ke]

I just feel like I’m a lousy guy since I don’t do all the things boyfriends do these days in the secular world.

Huh?

I’ve been single for so long, it’s nice to have “date.”

Honestly, this is just about the worst reason ever to stay in this relationship. I know so many people who slid into a marriage b/c of this-- marry in haste, repent at leisure. Marriage is FOREVER. Don’t yoke yourself to someone who dissents on such major, critical Church teachings.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Well, I might try to straighten her beliefs out (charitably, of course), and if it doesn’t seem like I was getting anywhere, throw that fish back in the sea from whence she came and bait your hook again. There’s lots of fish in the sea that would be a much better life mate than a liberal one who really doesn’t know or give 100% assent to her Catholic faith. Sorry, but it is what it is. Much easier to deal with it now than years from now, with children!

 

[JohnDamian]

I believe the other posters to be overreacting.

Most importantly; you said but not militant, nor is she overtly sensual in behavior

You said yourself that she volunteered around the world; etc. etc. No doubt; if she volunteered through secular agencies much secular thinking would have rubbed off; so to speak.

It is thus understandable (but not desirable) that she has these beliefs.

I would strongly consider sitting down and discussing these issues with her; it would be unfair to just “end the relationship” – you should help her understand the roots of these teachings and explain them fully. If you need help with explaining these issues; there are many people on CAF who are happy to explain why things like the female priesthood are impossible (viz. Persona Christi), and why things like birth control diminish the value and unity of a sexual relationship etc. etc.

The chances are that she was poorly Catechised (taught) into the faith.

The fact that she has very liberal friends is really somewhat irrelevant; I have many secular and even anti-religious friends; and I have been called overly traditional or fundamentalist by practicing Catholics. Just because my friends believe something; does not mean I must – and clearly from the fact that you are able to have a relationship with her (despite different beliefs) indicates that she is willing to be friends with those of different beliefs.

You definatly need to have a serious conversation;-- but it would be premature and unfair to call off a relationship without putting in any effort.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

…She is pro “woman’s’ rights”, including birth control and female’ priesthood (but not militant, nor is she overtly sensual in behavior). I know she has some very liberal friends that are the complete opposite of me.

Growing up in a family that practiced this brand of Catholicism, having taken it to heart and fought for it myself for a while, I can tell you that her beliefs are as different from yours as an entirely different religion would be. If you want to teach your children the Catholic faith directly, it will be close to impossible with her beliefs. Particularly because people who believe those things are not going to sit quietly while you teach the opposite, they are more like activists. And since she would be the mother of your children, her influence will be even greater. IMHO, you would do best to not date her, because you have the opportunity now, before it gets too late (emotionally speaking) to keep yourself from getting into a marriage that results in a lot of heartbreak and risks the souls of your future children. If the relationship is short enough that you and she can easily go back to being friends, then do that. You will still have the chance to be a witness.

 

[Rewind4]

I believe the other posters to be overreacting.

Most importantly; you said but not militant, nor is she overtly sensual in behavior

You said yourself that she volunteered around the world; etc. etc. No doubt; if she volunteered through secular agencies much secular thinking would have rubbed off; so to speak.

It is thus understandable (but not desirable) that she has these beliefs.

I would strongly consider sitting down and discussing these issues with her; it would be unfair to just “end the relationship” – you should help her understand the roots of these teachings and explain them fully. If you need help with explaining these issues; there are many people on CAF who are happy to explain why things like the female priesthood are impossible (viz. Persona Christi), and why things like birth control diminish the value and unity of a sexual relationship etc. etc.

The chances are that she was poorly Catechised (taught) into the faith…

You definatly need to have a serious conversation;-- but it would be premature and unfair to call off a relationship without putting in any effort.

Thank you; I read some responses and although I appreciate them all, the tones sometimes used seemed grave.

I think we will have to have a conversation that is more serious than comparing our beliefs in a lighthearted way. She took Catholic theology courses in college (also a Catholic school), so she knows her stuff.

I know that dating is discernment for marriage, but - I don’t think it’s wrong to date in general. Maybe I think a bit different about it because I’m younger, but I think you have to go out there and meet and greet others; if it was meant that I should marry, I doubt my future wife will fall into my lap.

And that was another point I had in mind when writing this: “it would be premature and unfair to call off a relationship without putting in any effort.”
I mentioned earlier she’s so many good things, and we have such a nice time when we’re together. It’s part of the reason why this gnawing me alive inside.

 

[spunjalebi]

I have a relative who is in a similar situation with her boyfriend and she knows that she needs to break it off, I know she needs to break it off, and we are both sure the boyfriend knows she needs to break it off. But she doesn’t, and I can’t say I really understand this form of masochism.

I don’t apologize for what I am about to say: dating/courtship is a time to discern who you would want to get married to. Because trust me, the “like” feeling disappears real soon and you’ve got to have a lot more than just likes and loves once you get married. That is something I have experienced first-hand.

Values and beliefs are not something which are easily changed or easy to overcome. I daresay differences in culture are probably easier to find a middle ground on than reconciling liberal progressive beliefs with orthodox Catholicity. You’ve got to have more than “a nice time when we’re together.” And no offense, but when it comes to such a difference in beliefs and especially when they are this important (at least the impression I am getting from you), no amount of work in the relationship will get her to change her mind about her beliefs, just as with yours. After all, do you really think it’s going to be fair to put the work into the relationship, just so you can hope her beliefs change while yours remain? Do you think that’s really fair to her?

 

[Rewind4]

. After all, do you really think it’s going to be fair to put the work into the relationship, just so you can hope her beliefs change while yours remain? Do you think that’s really fair to her?

I believe every relationship needs work, from both sides. There are stories of people returning to the Church because their partner has shown them the way. However, it’s doubtful in this case here, I don’t know since we’ve been dating for a month.

And, I may have had the naive notion initially that we “agree to disagree” without getting too deep - I thought wrong, at least on my part. She doesn’t seem to see anything wrong with dating a Traditional Catholic guy when her type of beliefs usually scoff at this. And that’s where I think I might be unfair.

 

[PatriceA]

Thank you; I read some responses and although I appreciate them all, the tones sometimes used seemed grave.

I think we will have to have a conversation that is more serious than comparing our beliefs in a lighthearted way. She took Catholic theology courses in college (also a Catholic school), so she knows her stuff.

I know that dating is discernment for marriage, but - I don’t think it’s wrong to date in general. Maybe I think a bit different about it because I’m younger, but I think you have to go out there and meet and greet others; if it was meant that I should marry, I doubt my future wife will fall into my lap.

And that was another point I had in mind when writing this: “it would be premature and unfair to call off a relationship without putting in any effort.”
I mentioned earlier she’s so many good things, and we have such a nice time when we’re together. It’s part of the reason why this gnawing me alive inside.

You took most of the advice as “grave” because you really don’t want to hear the truth, IMO.

I don’t always agree that dating is just for discerning a marriage partner myself and you should go out and meet people. And no, a marriage partner is not going to just fall into your lap, but why would you stay in a relationship such as you have described if most of the signs are telling you this is not a relationship with much of a future beyond having a steady date on a Saturday night? You cant be in a relationship that seems to be pointing to a dead end AND find a marriage partner at the same time.

You still didn’t answer though why you feel like such a “lousy guy” though in this relationship. Dating to meet other people or dating to discern a marriag partner, either situation you shouldn’t be feeling like you’re “lousy.”

 

[Rewind4]

You took most of the advice as “grave” because you really don’t want to hear the truth, IMO.

I don’t always agree that dating is just for discerning a marriage partner myself and you should go out and meet people. And no, a marriage partner is not going to just fall into your lap, but why would you stay in a relationship such as you have described if most of the signs are telling you this is not a relationship with much of a future beyond having a steady date on a Saturday night? You cant be in a relationship that seems to be pointing to a dead end AND find a marriage partner at the same time.

You still didn’t answer though why you feel like such a “lousy guy” though in this relationship. Dating to meet other people or dating to discern a marriag partner, either situation you shouldn’t be feeling like you’re “lousy.”

I wrote in the post above that: "And, I may have had the naive notion initially that we “agree to disagree” without getting too deep - I thought wrong, at least on my part. She doesn’t seem to see anything wrong with dating a Traditional Catholic guy when her type of beliefs usually scoff at this. And that’s where I think I might be unfair. " - that’s what making me feel lousy. That if she potentially thinks I’m really super, great and blah, blah, blah, I’m most likely going to have to call it off.

Another thing that makes me feel lousy is the fact I’ve always maintained that no one is prefect and I should just accept the other for who they are. The fact I am not a guy who’s always in relationships made me a bit naive to this in a dating situation.

 

[PatriceA]

I wrote in the post above that: "And, I may have had the naive notion initially that we “agree to disagree” without getting too deep - I thought wrong, at least on my part. She doesn’t seem to see anything wrong with dating a Traditional Catholic guy when her type of beliefs usually scoff at this. And that’s where I think I might be unfair. " - that’s what making me feel lousy. That if she potentially thinks I’m really super, great and blah, blah, blah, I’m most likely going to have to call it off.

Another thing that makes me feel lousy is the fact I’ve always maintained that no one is prefect and I should just accept the other for who they are. The fact I am not a guy who’s always in relationships made me a bit naive to this in a dating situation.

There is a point though that I think you need to think about is if you are being asked to compromise your views about the Catholic faith so that the relationship works. And this has nothing to do with not doing what boyfriends do in the secular world like you stated in your OP. Even in a secular dating relationship, any time you are being asked to compromise your core beliefs and values, the relationship is in trouble.

Ask yourself this: what about this relationship is working, what is running smoothly? The one reason you seem to give about wanting to stay in the relationship is that you feel you might be being unfair to her because you haven’t given it enough time or effort. Is there anything about this relationship you like if the girl was a traditional Catholic?

 

[jilly4ski]

I happen to agree with the majority of partners. I just don’t see how a relationship (marriage) would work with one person being a “traditional”/orthodox catholic and the other a “progressive” liberal Catholic. It would affect every aspect of the marriage even before children, issues like sexual morality/contraception come to mind.

I understand that you have only been dating a month, but why invest the time, money, and emotions into a relationship you know has no future? You can still be friends if you enjoy hanging out together and then you would be free to date other women who may be marriage material.

 

[Rewind4]

There is a point though that I think you need to think about is if you are being asked to compromise your views about the Catholic faith so that the relationship works. And this has nothing to do with not doing what boyfriends do in the secular world like you stated in your OP. Even in a secular dating relationship, any time you are being asked to compromise your core beliefs and values, the relationship is in trouble.

Ask yourself this: what about this relationship is working, what is running smoothly? The one reason you seem to give about wanting to stay in the relationship is that you feel you might be being unfair to her because you haven’t given it enough time or effort. Is there anything about this relationship you like if the girl was a traditional Catholic?

Thank you for your insight. I think I would like practically everything about the relationship if she was Catholic that believes in the church’s teachings, and not picks and chooses.
And yes, I feel that I am being unfair because we haven’t given it enough time and effort.

Which, as others have said here before, might be a good impetus to break it off, before it gets too deep. Too bad we’ve scheduled a dinner several days ago for tonight LOL

Maybe I should ask her to attend Mass with me on Sunday - that could be the green light for a more deeper discussion of core values

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

And that was another point I had in mind when writing this: “it would be premature and unfair to call off a relationship without putting in any effort.”
I mentioned earlier she’s so many good things, and we have such a nice time when we’re together. It’s part of the reason why this gnawing me alive inside.

You have a point about not being hasty to end things without putting in effort. But here’s how I see it. You have a good relationship with her - you like each other, you enjoy spending time together, you’re not fighting etc…You don’t really need to put in effort because your relationship doesn’t really have problems. It is possible that your and her personalities will always match and that she would make a great companion for you.

But as you know, with marriage comes children (usually), and with children come the problems that you certainly will have with her. It starts with the little ones like do you baptize the baby as soon as possible or not? Which church do you baptize in? When you pray at night, is she going to be praying to Our Mother who art in heaven? Your children WILL learn that abortion and birth control are ok, and from this, they will learn that the Catholic Church is NOT actually the authority on matters of faith. They will not be taught true sexual morality, and will be led to believe that mortal sins are actually just a matter of personal choice. They will likely be discouraged from going to frequent confession, receiving the Eucharist worthily, and in fact, they will unwittingly be taught that the Eucharist is a symbol, all religions are valid - basically they will be taught agnosticism or even atheism dressed up as liberal Catholicism.

I know I probably sound like an alarmist, but I know this from experience. Catholics in the woman-priesthood camp, fall into two groups - the clueless lukewarm, and the educated activists. Even if your GF is not in the educated activists group now, if she continues along her path, she very may well be. I’m telling you with certainty, this is what they believe. And I’m telling you that the parishes whose member follow this creed raise children who leave the faith altogether.

So while I agree with you that good relationships ought to be worked at and taken care of, what you have with her that is worth saving (at this point) is a friendship. The romance, as long as your religious differences are so vast, is not a great idea. You are in a good position because the relationship is new. If you stay and put in “the effort”, how much harder will it be for you to break up 6 months or a year or two down the line when you really are ready to start considering marriage? By then you’ll be in love, and will desperately want to stay together.

But the above scenario will be just as likely then, because your effort can’t change her faith. People don’t convert because of the effort of others. Now a person could be nudged closer to conversion by the witness of those around them, but I recommend you do this as a friend, not as a high stakes game of let’s fall in love.

 

[JohnDamian]

Rewind4:

Maybe I should ask her to attend Mass with me on Sunday - that could be the green light for a more deeper discussion of core values

That is where to start.

If you have dinner scheduled today; Don’t bring up anything major today; but schedule another meeting where you can discuss values at length. Important things to consider would be;

If Children; the Faith of Children
Openness to Natural Family Planning (if applicable)
Why she feels the way she does on some major issues
Marraige in the Church (sacramental marraige)

Etc.

 

[joandarc2008]

I think you already know the answer but want strength and encouragement. Here it is.

Type in a google search with the following words:

Pope Benedict XVI Moral Relativism

If there are still any questions come on back and ask. God bless you.