The Gift of Groans

[contemplative]

From the readings for today October 25, 2005

First: Romans 8:26-30Resp: Psalm 13:4-6Gospel: Luke 13:22-30

Brothers and sisters:
The Spirit comes to the aid of our weakness;
for we do not know how to pray as we ought,
but the Spirit himself intercedes with inexpressible groanings.
And the one who searches hearts
knows what is the intention of the Spirit,
because he intercedes for the holy ones
according to God’s will.

We know that all things work for good for those who love God,
who are called according to his purpose.
For those he foreknew he also predestined
to be conformed to the image of his Son,
so that he might be the firstborn
among many brothers.
And those he predestined he also called;
and those he called he also justified;
and those he justified he also glorified. Romans 8:26-30

…The Spirit will teach us how to pray by teaching us how to groan. In other words, He will transform our hearts to desire deeply what He wants. This deep desire for God’s will to be done can be expressed in speech only to a limited degree. It must also be expressed in groans from deep within our hearts.
Read more of the reflection here .

 

[tom.wineman]

There use to be a southern black style of music called “moaning” that was around in the early 1900’s that was along those lines but you never hear it any more except on a few old recordings.

 

[contemplative]

This Pauline website has good advice on learning how to pray.

1. How can we learn to pray?
   We learn to pray best by praying, by talking to God from our own heart. Many examples of prayer can be found throughout the pages of Scripture, especially in the Psalms. (2568-2619, 2653-2654)
   Give ear to my words, O Lord; give heed to my groaning. Hearken to the sound of my cry, my King and my God, for to you do I pray. O Lord, in the morning you hear my voice; in the morning I prepare a sacrifice for you, and watch (Ps 5:1-3).

Read more here

 

[contemplative]

There use to be a southern black style of music called “moaning” that was around in the early 1900’s that was along those lines but you never hear it any more except on a few old recordings.

This info below is not about music called “moaning” but it somehow parallels what I think you talking about.

Christian History Institute

Issue #89: Slave Songs Transcend Sorrow

The Air Quivered

Singly or by twos the black slaves slipped into the torch-lit forest grove. What they were doing was illegal. They could be whipped for it. But they had to sing, had to sing without restraint, had to pour out to God their souls’ deepest prayers, longings and complaints, regardless of consequences. With bodies swaying and eyes half-closed, they sang, lifting to heaven their anguish and triumph. Oh, bye an’ bye, bye an’ bye

I’m goin’ to lay down my heavy load…
I’m troubled, I’m troubled,
I’m troubled in mind
If Jesus don’t help me
I surely will die. . .
Simple the words may have been, but they expressed spiritual aspirations and sorrows as deep as any found in Christendom.

Read more of this bulletin here

 

[springbreeze]

So are these people groaning outloud? If that is the case then that’s one big distraction in Mass!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[contemplative]

I am weary with my groaning.
Every night I flood my bed.
I drench my couch with my tears.
Psalm 6:6

Lord, all my desire is before thee; and my groaning is not hid from thee.
Psalm 38:9

I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.
Acts of the Apostles 7:34

 

[tom.wineman]

contemplative:

This info below is not about music called “moaning” but it somehow parallels what I think you talking about.

Christian History Institute

Issue #89: Slave Songs Transcend Sorrow

The Air Quivered

Singly or by twos the black slaves slipped into the torch-lit forest grove. What they were doing was illegal. They could be whipped for it. But they had to sing, had to sing without restraint, had to pour out to God their souls’ deepest prayers, longings and complaints, regardless of consequences. With bodies swaying and eyes half-closed, they sang, lifting to heaven their anguish and triumph.Oh, bye an’ bye, bye an’ bye

I’m goin’ to lay down my heavy load…
I’m troubled, I’m troubled,
I’m troubled in mind
If Jesus don’t help me
I surely will die. . .

Simple the words may have been, but they expressed spiritual aspirations and sorrows as deep as any found in Christendom.

Read more of this bulletin here

Very interesting, Thank you.

 

[springbreeze]

We really musn’t take ourselves soooooooooo seriously!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[contemplative]

springbreeze:

We really musn’t take ourselves soooooooooo seriously!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Do you have something more constructive to add to this thread? There is not much written about this particular passage in the Bible.

 

[Rebecca_New]

springbreeze:

We really musn’t take ourselves soooooooooo seriously!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

A man I work with has a running joke about “spanking” his kittens. When we are under pressure it is so funny we all laugh and then make more comments-etc. I know this is wrong and do not participate in this-even though I am tempted to laugh and find myself unconciously laughing at times. What it leads to is an unchaste environment that gets worse each time. I don’t think we take ourselves serious enough-that is the problem. It starts out so innocent and small, and you don’t even know what is happening. We have to be on guard against the wickedness and snares of the cunning evil one.

 

[springbreeze]

My comment isn’t a comment about subject matter or about the very serious nature of our salvation nor a comment about faith or God.

All this thinking, all this writing, all these ponderings amount to nothing, we ARE nothing.

We are so weak, we are nothing, what we do have belongs to God and we have nothing to offer God, we know we** are** sinners and we know we need God and He doesn’t need us, tell me then why we take ourselves so seriously?

My post is nothing

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Joysong]

Dear Contemplative,

Your thread is not distinctively clear what you would like to share with us, and perhaps that is the reason for Teresa’s response. Groaning is only one form of prayer among many, and it is for the very serious pray-er who has a burden of soul so deep that is unexpressible in words. Indeed the Spirit will lift up our cries unto the Lord God on our behalf.

You posted a link to the Pauline website, and we read there:

6. What are the types of prayer?

These are the types of prayer:

• blessing (Eph 1:3)
• adoration (Ps 95:6)
• petition (Col 4:12)
• asking forgiveness (Lk 18:13)
• intercession (1 Tm 2:1)
• thanksgiving (1 Thes 5:18)
• praise (Eph 3:20), (2626-2643)

May I ask how you wanted us to respond? Is it to help us appreciate that groaning is a gift? I’m trusting you don’t believe that all prayer should have this interior quality? http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/ani/hmmm.gif

The forms of prayer listed above are not specific to the type of prayer in your thread topic, and would not include groaning at all. On the contrary, a few of these would have the inverse effect of rejoicing and gladness of heart.

Carole

 

[contemplative]

Dear Contemplative,

Your thread is not distinctively clear what you would like to share with us,

The clarity was lost when the page at the link in the OP was changed.
The reflection to the reading is here
There is so little written about the gift of groans. I was struck by this reflection and wanted to share.

 

[contemplative]

Joysong:

The forms of prayer listed above are not specific to the type of prayer in your thread topic, and would not include groaning at all. On the contrary, a few of these would have the inverse effect of rejoicing and gladness of heart.

Carole

and again from the Pauline website…

**

**4. How can we learn to pray?
**

**We learn to pray best by praying, by talking to God from our own heart. Many examples of prayer can be found throughout the pages of Scripture, especially in the Psalms. (2568-2619, 2653-2654)

Give ear to my words, O Lord; give heed to my groaning. Hearken to the sound of my cry, my King and my God, for to you do I pray. O Lord, in the morning you hear my voice; in the morning I prepare a sacrifice for you, and watch (Ps 5:1-3).

 

[Joysong]

Contemplative:

The clarity was lost when the page at the link in the OP was changed.

Oh, I see. The computer gremlins were at it again!

Thanks,
Carole

 

[contemplative]

Joysong:

Oh, I see. The computer gremlins were at it again!

Thanks,
Carole

Not really.
The original link posted led to a page that was scheduled to change daily. I then posted the stationary page with link when the confusion was brought to my attention.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Contemplative,

For the sake of new readers to the thread (me included), your last post indicated that you corrected your original post later on. But if you read both links in your follow-up post #3, they are the same one from the Pauline link, and neither of them match the last link you gave us in post #13 about the gift of groaning. That is the first time I saw it.

Not only are the gremlins having a field day, but I thought I was having a very wacky “senior moment” after reading your previous post. :whacky: In case I still am, could you please point out where you put the correction?

Carole

 

[contemplative]

Joysong:

Dear Contemplative,

For the sake of new readers to the thread (me included), your last post indicated that you corrected your original post later on. But if you read both links in your follow-up post #3, they are the same one from the Pauline link, and neither of them match the last link you gave us in post #13 about the gift of groaning. That is the first time I saw it.

Not only are the gremlins having a field day, but I thought I was having a very wacky “senior moment” after reading your previous post. :whacky: In case I still am, could you please point out where you put the correction?

Carole

and again…

The clarity was lost when the page at the link in the OP was changed.
The reflection to the reading is here
There is so little written about the gift of groans. I was struck by this reflection and wanted to share.

 

[contemplative]

springbreeze:

So are these people groaning outloud? If that is the case then that’s one big distraction in Mass and for me could be an occassion for sin!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Your thoughts are obscene and inappropriate to post here.

 

[springbreeze]

contemplative:

Your thoughts are obscene and inappropriate to post here.

Dear friend

Thank you. If obscene is having a sense of humour and not taking myself too seriously then I and my thoughts are obscene.

Prayer is a very powerful tool I have learnt and what’s more we are merely children with a very powerful tool at our disposal and more than that we really do know so little about it. None of us are St Teresa of Avila’s and none of us can take ourselves so seriously as to be teachers of others and to take any great offence over anything. Humility is a great thing, the greatest thing and I so wish I had it by God’s grace, but one thing I do know, taking pride in anything especially prayer is a very dangerous game.

Forgive my light-heartedness in what you deem as obscene, but it stems from realising I know nothing at all.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa