The Gift that keeps on taking

[Luke65]

Matthew 8:1-4

A man, being healed of his leprosy, was told by Jesus to go to the priests and present the gift TO THEM as spoken of by Moses. I do believe this to be allegorical and purposely inserted for lesson purposes as well as to see who actually even is paying attention to what is now referred to as the old testament (which Jesus DOES specifically make mention of metaphorically as being better than the new Luke 5:37-39).

Well, you misunderstood the parable in Luke, right Geometer? Jesus didn’t say, “The old is better.” He said that those who had already drunk the old wine would say that when they tried the new wine. He was prophesying that the Jews would reject Him, Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, preferring their Old Covenant - as did Joel:

“Wake up, you drunkards, and weep! Wail, all you drinkers of wine; wail because of the new wine, for it has been snatched from your lips.” (Joel 1:5)

:tiphat:

 

[simplynoone]

Is this the only time Jesus asks that no one speak of what they saw?

No, I do not believe it is the only time. In fact, I am curious what you would say of the following passage? John 7:8-10 He says that he is not going to go to this feast because his time to is not yet… and well, he goes anyway… even though he blatantly says he is not going yet. So secretively too …

I would like to see this one explained.

 

[dashso40]

What I would HATE, is to live in a world without their presence. As long as they are still existing, there is not a reason I have for hate … I only wish to contribute to helping them maintain their rightful place in the world. Those who are against them seem to be more than those who are for them. They have the Muslims killing them and the Christians trying to convert them. I don’t think many would like to be in existence without them… only they imagine they would.

Think… had they not existed, would you have knowledge of the God of Israel? I don’t think so.

I don’t try to convert Jews…I think their religion is wonderful…I don’t agree with their religious views obviously, but I respect their chosen beliefs…You just sound very angry…I look at Jewish websites to learn about thier religion but I don’t ever post any opinions b/c mine differ so much from Jewish, but it’s interesting to learn about it…

 

[Luke65]

and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.

How does this apply to a catholic christian, or any christian?

Well, Egypt is symbolic of “the world”. And our Lord calls us Christians “out of the world.” But if you look at the infamous statistics in America, showing that Christians aren’t much different than non-Christians, you can see that we have become one with the world. “This is a wicked generation.” We have gone back to Egypt, to the gods our ancient fathers served, and to the slavery of sin.

 

[simplynoone]

As she laughed at God? And caused another woman to enter into the “marriage” and then later that woman cries out to God because of her cruelty? And is promised things by God?

What happened to trusting God?

Hmmm… maybe it was the irony of the whole situation. Think here… what are you judging her for? She was honest when she laughed and God still honored her, no? Thus, the irony in Genesis 21:6 … because she is being judged harshly by those who don’t really seem to have any clue … she is being judged by you for her honest reaction and YET… God did not deny her of her son. Quite gorgeous really. And I can’t help but to laugh my ownself at why the comment was made in Gen 21:6… justice perfected, no?

 

[Eucharisted]

No, I do not believe it is the only time. In fact, I am curious what you would say of the following passage? John 7:8-10 He says that he is not going to go to this feast because his time to is not yet… and well, he goes anyway… even though he blatantly says he is not going yet. So secretively too …

I would like to see this one explained.

No, Jesus said He wouldn’t go up to the feast just yet. He stayed in Galilee until His relatives went, and than He went.

 

[geometer]

Well, you misunderstood the parable in Luke, right Geometer? Jesus didn’t say, “The old is better.” He said that those who had already drunk the old wine would say that when they tried the new wine. He was prophesying that the Jews would reject Him, Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, preferring their Old Covenant - as did Joel:

“Wake up, you drunkards, and weep! Wail, all you drinkers of wine; wail because of the new wine, for it has been snatched from your lips.” (Joel 1:5)

:tiphat:

Well, I haven’t posted anything about that parable. I have oppinions about wine though, based on facts about wine. My dad worked in that industry.

 

[simplynoone]

He meant not to tell anyone who healed him. I am not quite sure why he did not want this man to reveal who had done the healing.

Me too. I’ll tell you what I know if you tell me what you know.

 

[simplynoone]

Throw that away because it is a mistranslation of the Bible. A better translation would be the New American Bible.

Also, I find it very funny that you are judging Jesus, while at the same time telling Christians they are wrong about Jesus. Ever heard of hypocrisy?

As for your first comment, I have every English translation of the Bible… I prefer the KJV. The rest just read as though they were written by those who were uninformed that the Tanakh came before the NT for a reason.

I judge everything that comes before me. Still, I am VERY open to hearing how you think I am being hypocritical here. It is truth I am after… so quit throwing out unsupported accusations and tell me specifically why you are judging me in this way.

 

[geometer]

As for your first comment, I have every English translation of the Bible… I prefer the KJV. The rest just read as though they were written by those who were uninformed that the Tanakh came before the NT for a reason.

Do you have an interlinear bible with the original hebrew and greek?

 

[simplynoone]

This is the entire problem with Sarah to me. And why I find Mary so much more interesting. She does not laugh at God. She simply asks how it can be.

In edit mode I add this:

She and Abraham did a lot of things that I can not imagine were the best. The bible says the people then were hard hearted.

Having a laugh at God, then obtianing a concubine after being promised by God things would happen, then later taking that concubine and treating her badly, says a lot to me.

You say that there are many things you can’t imagine that they did that were best and yet God still blessed them despite what you are saying in regards to her and her husband. (again, the irony of what Sarah says in Genesis 21:6 strikes me as funny right now).

Do you really not have a sense of humor that you can’t appreciate what it is Sarah appreciated? Not only do I find it humorous, but I find it to be very comforting.

 

[simplynoone]

Catholics only have one God, so I don’t understand your point.

Oh… it is good to know there is one Catholic who does not accept a man, Jesus, as God as well as it is good that you know God is incorporeal… not a “3 for 1” special. Kuddos!!

 

[simplynoone]

Well, you misunderstood the parable in Luke, right Geometer? Jesus didn’t say, “The old is better.” He said that those who had already drunk the old wine would say that when they tried the new wine. He was prophesying that the Jews would reject Him, Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, preferring their Old Covenant - as did Joel:

“Wake up, you drunkards, and weep! Wail, all you drinkers of wine; wail because of the new wine, for it has been snatched from your lips.” (Joel 1:5)

:tiphat:

Perhaps you should read more closely what Jesus says in the parable of the wine in Luke. Jesus DID say the old is better… he said both should be preserved… and that the old had been preserved for longer makes it the better!! And this IS true to Life… And yes, you should be paying attention as well to what Joel is saying as well as the rest of the Tanakh.

Again… if Jesus was actually physically able to resurrect from the dead (which he can’t, as he was well aware of), it is truth that few would recognize him even if he were posting on these forums.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Frequently, the KJV uses the word “gift” when we would say “bribe” today.

Frequently–not always.

 

[Luke65]

Perhaps you should read more closely what Jesus says in the parable of the wine in Luke. Jesus DID say the old is better… he said both should be preserved… and that the old had been preserved for longer makes it the better!! And this IS true to Life…

You really need to learn how to read. Jesus did not say the old wine is better, He said that is what the people will say. And where does Jesus say anything about “preserving” the old wine? Nowhere. Where does Jesus even say there is any old wine? Nowhere. There’s an old wineskin, but it can’t be used anymore. If you want to know where Jesus told us to preserve the Old Testament, it is here (among other places):

“Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.” (Matthew 13:52)

And yes, you should be paying attention as well to what Joel is saying as well as the rest of the Tanakh.

I am paying attention, unfortunately, you’re not.

"After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes… This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. " (Luke 22:17-20)

Unfortunately, this cup of new wine, the Blood of Christ, has been snatched from your lips, which was foretold in the Tanach, but you still don’t get it.

Again… if Jesus was actually physically able to resurrect from the dead (which he can’t, as he was well aware of), it is truth that few would recognize him even if he were posting on these forums.

Right, that’s why He said over and over again that He would rise from the dead on the third day.

You believe what you want to believe, and reject whatever you don’t want to believe. You remake Jesus, and God, in your own image, instead of accepting and loving the Word of God as is. You will never come to a knowledge of the truth as long as you refuse to love the truth. :sad_yes:

 

[simplynoone]

No, Jesus said He wouldn’t go up to the feast just yet. He stayed in Galilee until His relatives went, and than He went.

8Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come.

9When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.

10But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

That’s odd … no? That his time which was not full when his brethren were about to leave suddenly became full when they were “gone up” … and he went secretly? You are not at all curious about this situation? … just accept what it says without giving any consideration as to the strangeness of this scenario?

 

[simplynoone]

Do you have an interlinear bible with the original hebrew and greek?

I might not … as I said, I have all the english translations (it was a gift) but I will admit to mostly sticking with the KJV.

I am of the mind that it does not so much matter what translation a person is reading because the most important part of the whole mix to understanding the Word of Life is generally what is left out… that would be that the Word is speaking TO Life. Life is the deciphering key to what it is we are reading and yet it is generally what is left out when people go about trying to understand it.

 

[simplynoone]

Frequently, the KJV uses the word “gift” when we would say “bribe” today.

Frequently–not always.

And in the cases of the original post in this thread?

 

[simplynoone]

You really need to learn how to read. Jesus did not say the old wine is better, He said that is what the people will say. And where does Jesus say anything about “preserving” the old wine? Nowhere. Where does Jesus even say there is any old wine? Nowhere. There’s an old wineskin, but it can’t be used anymore. If you want to know where Jesus told us to preserve the Old Testament, it is here (among other places):

“Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.” (Matthew 13:52)

I assure you he did not say that “they will say”… they say it better because it is the truth … and Jesus made it quite clear that he agreed… let us not forget that the NT did not even exist at the time of his teachings and that he referred people to the Tanakh in which you gain the understanding of what he was teaching. Matt 5:17-19

I am paying attention, unfortunately, you’re not.

"After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes… This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. " (Luke 22:17-20)

Unfortunately, this cup of new wine, the Blood of Christ, has been snatched from your lips, which was foretold in the Tanach, but you still don’t get it.

Geesh… the Tanakh is clear that it is speaking proverbially, as is Jesus. He is speaking of the same thing that is being spoken of in Jer 31:27.

Jews do not believe in drinking blood nor will you find a man on the list of acceptable sacrificial animals given in the Laws that came via the enlightenment of Moses.

Right, that’s why He said over and over again that He would rise from the dead on the third day.

You believe what you want to believe, and reject whatever you don’t want to believe. You remake Jesus, and God, in your own image, instead of accepting and loving the Word of God as is. You will never come to a knowledge of the truth as long as you refuse to love the truth. :sad_yes:

well, let’s not be coy … the words are written by man. That is a fact. Jeremiah 17:5 says that to trust in a man is a curse. This is true.

In Proverbs 2:1-7, we are told to cry out to God for understanding. Deut 4:12 is clear how it is we will “hear” His “Voice.” Zech 13:9 says these will be the People who He will call His and who will KNOW their God… the God of Israel.

So, what is truth… your version, to accept it as it is written and never question anything? That is only acceptable for minds that are turned off.

 

[TheQuestioner]

I assure you he did not say that “they will say”… they say it better because it is the truth … and Jesus made it quite clear that he agreed… let us not forget that the NT did not even exist at the time of his teachings and that he referred people to the Tanakh in which you gain the understanding of what he was teaching. Matt 5:17-19

Ok…so after reading this tread i must agree here with luke. You truly need to learn how to read.

From Luke 5 (NIV)
**Jesus Questioned About Fasting **

33They said to him, “John’s disciples often fast and pray, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours go on eating and drinking.” 34Jesus answered, “Can you make the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? 35But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast.”
36He told them this parable: "No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. 37And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. 38No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. 39And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, ‘The old is better.’ "

Jesus himself didn’t say the old wine was better, he says that those who tasted the old wine will say it tasted better. Whether he said “they will say” or “they say”, CLEARY he is not the one saying the old wine is better. You also misunderstand what he is saying he he talks about wine. He is not talking about an actual physical book like the old or new testament or the bible or tanakh. He is talking about a teaching. Anyone who lived under the old law and ways would say it was better. Its not enough to read, you have to read in context.

Geesh… the Tanakh is clear that it is speaking proverbially, as is Jesus. He is speaking of the same thing that is being spoken of in Jer 31:27.

Jews do not believe in drinking blood nor will you find a man on the list of acceptable sacrificial animals given in the Laws that came via the enlightenment of Moses.

Well, if you never believed in the eucharist then no wonder you ended up falling away. The Eucharist is very important and without a proper understanding of it you can be lead in different directions.

well, let’s not be coy … the words are written by man. That is a fact. Jeremiah 17:5 says that to trust in a man is a curse. This is true.

In Proverbs 2:1-7, we are told to cry out to God for understanding. Deut 4:12 is clear how it is we will “hear” His “Voice.” Zech 13:9 says these will be the People who He will call His and who will KNOW their God… the God of Israel.

So, what is truth… your version, to accept it as it is written and never question anything? That is only acceptable for minds that are turned off.

Wait Wait, wasn’t Jeremiah himself a man? If we shouldn’t trust words written by men then you shoulnd’t trust a single word in the entire bible, old testament or new. Luke backed you into a corner with his comment and you couldn’t find a way out so instead you attacked the authenticity of the bible. But that blows a HUGE hole in your original argument because it relies on the very same text who’s credibility you challenged.