The Gift that keeps on taking

[Lapell]

What is the Word of God as such a “double-edged sword” supposed to do? Kill the people? I will share you something with you… (continued)

 

[Lapell]

Years ago, I was in a psychiatric ward. At one point, I was asked to do the first reading. After a few weeks, somebody began to come to the Mass whose conduct in our department seemed to me hypocritical and I read in some “thundering” manner. To no avail, of course, for I was not in front looking at him, but from my seat…
Then, one day…

 

[Lapell]

I was about to do the same thing, this time on Sunday from the place in front where the readings should be read… and before I began, I heard in my inner ear a voice telling me this: “What you are reading is first addressed to YOURSELF.” I immediately realized the implications of this: no more thundering to others, for I might deserve then being thundered at by the Almighty Himself. I was being merciless to that man, and the Word of God comes from a God full of … mercy! I was misrepresenting Him! I was therefore bearing false witness!

 

[simplynoone]

First, you shouldn’t add to what is written. “Them” stands for his faithful apostles, also quite simply. AND IT DOESN’T STOP THERE!!! He also prayed also for those who believe in Him through their predication. (v.20)

I didn’t add words. Look at the beginning of the prayer … it is for the Son of God, that God would be glorified through him. Who is the Son of God? Exodus 4:22,23

And Isaiah 49:3 says that is through Israel that God would be glorified. Why? Psalm 145, because despite all that many hold against Israel, they know who it is that is their Saviour … God alone!

As for verse 20, this is explained when we see that his testimony is as a witness to the truth that was given via the prophets. Revelation 19:10 … and what was the truth given in the words of the prophets? WORSHIP GOD! And in Hosea 9:11, one of the testimonies of the prophets, God is not a man. Jesus gave witness to this truth in John 4:24. So, I do believe that Jesus was a Jew, one of many, in whom the testimony was established. Isaiah 8:16,20

 

[Lapell]

And so, believe me, ever since, I have taken the word of God far more seriously. And believe me, one should take the Word of God very seriously, for even by putting MANY verses together, but out of their context, one can truly misrepresent what God truly meant His Word to mean… so this is why I tell you and others to be very, very careful hou you interpret Biblical verses. A verse taken apart from its context often lead to serious.errors. If God means everything to you, please take this very, very seriously. You love God? Show Him in deeds and in your caring and loving attitude as well as in words (the latter when necessary)…

 

[ryanoneil]

As do I. Don’t over look 2 Samuel 7:14… Jeremiah 30. It is a People, Israel. Jeremiah 33:7 … as at the first? Deuteronomy 8:5 Exodus 4:22,23. He promised … and God is not like a man that He should repent. That He chastises His People is the promise being fulfilled. You say you believe in a literal fulfillment and yet, what the Tanakh says, as I have shown, is more literal a fulfillment than what is being taught in Christianity.

I don’t know what you are trying to say.

I was talking about one of David’s son sitting on David’s eternal throne in David’s eternal house in David’s eternal kingdom.

 

[Lapell]

Jesus was teaching the Jews their role as Messiah. I do not believe that only the house of Israel was “swallowed” up by the Gentiles, but also a portion of the house of Judah. Of course, this is stated in both Jeremiah 31:27 and Joel 3:6.

Why did you put “(Ephraim)” right after “the House of Israel” in reference to whom Jesus was sent to according to Mt 15?

 

[Lapell]

I didn’t add words. Look at the beginning of the prayer … it is for the Son of God, that God would be glorified through him. Who is the Son of God? Exodus 4:22,23

There again, you generalize from one single verse… or a few verses. King Solomon and the Kings of Judah after him were also called, though individually, sons of God. did you know that?
(I also think it was King David’s case.)

 

[simplynoone]

Here you should have read what’s WITHIN the verse:"…so that EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN ME will not die but have eternal life."
(John 17,3) “This is eternal life: to know you (Father), the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent.”

According to Revelation 19:10, the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy which is, Worship God! Anyone who believes Jesus will not argue with Deuteronomy 4:15,16 or with Hosea 11:9 since this is what he is testifying to. The Christian doctrine is not believing on or in what Jesus said because Jesus did not testify to being God. If you take the Christian blinders off when reading this prayer of Jesus, it is clear that he is saying he is not THE only Son of God and that he is praying for the Son of God, Israel … why? Because in verse 4, he declares that his work his finished. That means there is nothing more for him to do.

I can say that I am the daughter of God … I am OF God … yet this does not mean that I am God and neither does it mean that I am the Saviour … and you would not take my words to mean that. Yet then, Jesus says the same thing and you take it to mean something other than what it actually says. Get to know the Tanakh better and you will better understand the role of Jesus; a role that doesn’t only belong to him.

I, too, am a witness and a testimony to what the prophets (including Moses) spoke Jeremiah 4:2, Micah 7:20 … it is truth. Isaiah 43:9

John 18:37 … this is Jesus clearly saying that he is a WITNESS to the spirit of Truth. So am I. It is in the word of God. The Law of God is truth. Jesus is not the Law, but he came to confirm the Law, even to fulfill the Law … but that does not negate us from our duty to fulfill the Law as well, those of us called of God.

 

[simplynoone]

simplynoone;5737221:

True … I was told that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. Yet, Exodus 4:22,23 as well as Hosea 11:1 says the Son is Israel.

Thus, John 3:16 is speaking of Israel as a whole and not only Jesus. And Jesus was teaching his disciples how to call to the house of Israel …
Here again, read John 3,16 within its own context, so take the whole of Jesus’ answer to Nicodemus, John 3, 10-20. A sentence doesn’t make sense taken out of its context, and many errors happen because sentences are taken out of their context… (continued)

I have read the whole book of John several times. Anything that doesn’t line up with what is said in Torah and the prophets is interpolation by the Church. This is why it is called the OLD Testament; because to re-interpret everything from a source that one doesn’t understand becomes tedious work … and one fact about “faith” is that it is lazy.

Exodus 4:22,23 and Hosea 11:9 says the Son of God is Israel. The Torah, Jeremiah 31:27, Hosea 8:8, as well as many other confirmations of the prophets say that Israel was spread into the world … for what? … Isaiah 49:3 … to be a light to the Gentiles. Jesus says that it is to be a testimony against the Gentiles … is that acceptable to you since it comes from Jesus himself?

I filter the NT through the Tanakh and not the other way around. You can not filter the NT through the Tanakh and believe that 1) Jesus was God, 2) Jesus is the Saviour of the world, 3) and that Jesus is the only Son of God. In fact, you can hardly read the gospels and come away with that idea except that 1) there is the power of suggestion given by Paul and 2) so few actually KNOW the words written in the Tanakh. If you read your life in the words to hear the “voice” of the Word, then you would no longer be teaching a doctrine that you are not even witness to your ownself.

 

[simplynoone]

(I put “my” in bold letters, not simplynoone.) If the doctrine you preach were from God, you wouldn’t call it :“my doctrine”…

Let me clarify then for you. I base the doctrine I am teaching on what is actually written and not only that, but what I actually know. My life is in the words of the Tanakh … and the majority of the NT does not testify to what I know. It does not even testify to what Christians know. It is mystical and not based on life that was created by God.

 

[Lapell]

It is mystical and not based on life that was created by God.

“Mystical”… what do you mean by that?
“Not based on life that was created by God”… then on what, concretely?
It has to be based on something or somebody!

 

[Lapell]

Let me clarify then for you. I base the doctrine I am teaching on what is actually written and not only that, but what I actually know. My life is in the words of the Tanakh …

Which is more important? The taNaKH? or God?

 

[simplynoone]

If God assumed the human nature by taking the form of a man, and of a Jew at that, would He then not have the right to think of Himself as Who He would happen to be: God?
Are you trying to tell God how to be God and how to act as such?

It is not me who is attempting to define God. God is incorporeal and thus when you assign him to the body of a man, you are the one defining Him. I know that the infinite can not be such when given boundaries. We are the ones with the boundaries and that is the reason we are given the wisdom in Deut 4:15,16 … so as to not make our boundaries His boundaries. That is corrupting the truth of God. He works within our boundaries, yes … but He is not, was not, and will not be a man; else He has boundaries and the term infinite could not apply to Him.

 

[simplynoone]

Sorry, madame! This you heard from some Jews who don’t believe in Jesus as their Messiah, certainly. I know for a fact that some of them say the same thing.

You could say that in a sense I learned this from the Jews. I learned this from the Tanakh which was written by the Jews.

Paul started preaching Jesus as the awaited Messiah after he received a vision of the resurrected Jesus on his way to Damascus as told in the Acts of the Apostles, and he met with Peter and some Apostles to make sure what he was preaching was kosher doctrine in their view. They confirmed that his message was the same Gospel they were preaching. Paul tells this in his letter to the Galatians.

Read Galatians again. Actually, in the very first chapter you can see that there were disagreements with Paul. Genesis 17 … that token of the covenant between God and Abraham is in the flesh, and it is an everlasting sign. And clearly in that chapter, circumcision was to be for all those who entered into that covenant. Ezekiel 44:9 confirms that this was never abolished. “Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.”

The Gentiles were never under the Laws given to the Jewish. If they want to enter into the covenant and they are doing it because their heart has been circumcised, they will not argue the circumcision of the flesh.

 

[simplynoone]

I was about to do the same thing, this time on Sunday from the place in front where the readings should be read… and before I began, I heard in my inner ear a voice telling me this: “What you are reading is first addressed to YOURSELF.” I immediately realized the implications of this: no more thundering to others, for I might deserve then being thundered at by the Almighty Himself. I was being merciless to that man, and the Word of God comes from a God full of … mercy! I was misrepresenting Him! I was therefore bearing false witness!

Thus the words in Matthew 12:7.

By the way, another way to bear false witness is to say something is true when you have never witnessed it. Ezekiel 13 is an enlightening chapter. Pay close attention to verses 22 and 23. Verse 22 is truth because it is extremely sad to find out that your trust was misguided. Verse 23 is a promise that is kept and that is hope that is fulfilled through understanding.

 

[simplynoone]

And so, believe me, ever since, I have taken the word of God far more seriously. And believe me, one should take the Word of God very seriously, for even by putting MANY verses together, but out of their context, one can truly misrepresent what God truly meant His Word to mean… so this is why I tell you and others to be very, very careful hou you interpret Biblical verses. A verse taken apart from its context often lead to serious.errors. If God means everything to you, please take this very, very seriously. You love God? Show Him in deeds and in your caring and loving attitude as well as in words (the latter when necessary)…

Anything that claims to be part of the text that confirms Judaism should be filtered through the Laws. That is the foundation of the Jewish faith. John 4:22

I like the last of what you said. That is what the Laws teach. It has nothing to do with belief in man, but in knowing and acting accordingly to the Law of God.

 

[simplynoone]

I don’t know what you are trying to say.

I was talking about one of David’s son sitting on David’s eternal throne in David’s eternal house in David’s eternal kingdom.

Well, what I am saying is that one of the ways that we know the son of David is by the chastisement that is of God. Given that Jesus was perfect, God would not have needed to chastise him. Then there is the question that if all the prophecies point toward Jesus and Jesus was supposed to be perfect and was in fact, perfect (according to the Christian view), why did God say “If he commit iniquity.”

All throughout the Tanakh, though, we see who it is that receives the chastisement that is of God. That is the People, Israel. So, this wasn’t a prophecy in the way that Christians think … rather it is a conceptual metaphor to bring forth understanding of what was already in the Laws they were given.

Deuteronomy 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.

Jeremiah 30:10-14

 

[simplynoone]

Why did you put “(Ephraim)” right after “the House of Israel” in reference to whom Jesus was sent to according to Mt 15?

Matthew 15:24 says who Jesus came for. Ephraim is another name for the house of Israel in the testimonies of the prophets. The wisdom of this is understood by the blessings given by Jacob to the sons of Joseph in Genesis 48.

 

[simplynoone]

There again, you generalize from one single verse… or a few verses. King Solomon and the Kings of Judah after him were also called, though individually, sons of God. did you know that?
(I also think it was King David’s case.)

Exodus 4:22,23