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Psalm45_9
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Which is what I said.
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drforjc
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Great!
I suspect that is also what Abp Burke meant as well.
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belkowl
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Since moving to SE Wisconsin this summer 4/4 of the parishes where I’ve attended mass do not say the Gloria during Sunday mass (including during ordinary time). Anyone else experience this or know why?
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Cristiano
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If Advent is not real a penitential time, than why parishes (as far as I know) go the extra mile and have special penance services? In my parish advent it is also treated a penitential time.
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DebChris
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As a community we anticipate the coming of Christ. Penance is one way of preparing for that coming. We prepare our hearts for the coming of Christ now and in the future. We open the door to reconciliation with one another and with God. “Prepare the way of the Lord.” Advent is also the start of a new year, a time for resolution (conversion) as the new year begins. We begin this new year with a clean house (heart).
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mozier
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I always look forward to Advent and Lent so that I do NOT have to do the Gloria!
The one sung in our parish is terrible.
The one sung in our parish is terrible.
Advent is not a penitential season per se, but one cannot deny a penitential character to it. Note that the readings on John the Baptist call for repentance, for the Lord is near. The O Antiphons call for the breaking down of barriers that hinder us from welcoming the Lord. And of course, as I pointed out in another thread, the Church still wears violet.
However, in the Ordo we use in the Philippines, it has a provision:
“During Advent, bluer hues of violet may be used, to distinguish it from the more strictly penitential season of Lent.”
It does NOT allow blue to be used, but rather, a bluer shade of violet. But it is still violet, and violet is a color of repentance.
However, in the Ordo we use in the Philippines, it has a provision:
“During Advent, bluer hues of violet may be used, to distinguish it from the more strictly penitential season of Lent.”
It does NOT allow blue to be used, but rather, a bluer shade of violet. But it is still violet, and violet is a color of repentance.
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MH84
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What are special penance services? Are they the Masses in which the people are called for confession after the Gospel, sort of like a Community confession time with priests allocated around the church?
If you are just talking about an increase in normal Confession times, I think (not know) that there is generally an increase in confessions as Christmas approaches because people want to prepared for this day. Its often the same as the Easter triduum approaches. :twocents:
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MH84
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Is it the upbeat version? I dont even know if there are many versions
. But in my home town, we used to sing this version to a guitar tune. I think its innocent enough.
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Phemie
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I think you mean ‘service’ not ‘Mass’ because you can’t interrupt Mass for confession. And yes, I suspect that that is what the poster means, Form two of the sacrament where there is a liturgy of the word, an examination of conscience and then private confession.
We always have a penitential service during Lent and one during Advent. As a matter of fact we had ours last night – fewer than 20 people in attendance. Sad really, but people today seem to feel no need for confession. As a visiting priest said to me “Oh, I forgot, people in Canada don’t sin!”
The situation wasn’t helped by the fact that for about 10 years we had penitential services with general absolution. People just got out of the habit of going to confession and once general absolution was determined to have been used inappropriately they never bothered to return to the sacrament.
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Phemie
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So for you singing it would be a penitential act?
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MH84
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This is news to me. In my old parish, several times a year, if not less, two priests during the Saturday night vigil Mass will be present during the Mass (one celebrating, the other arriving later from another parish). If I recall correctly, after the Gospels there would be held the Sacrament of Reconciliation, were the people will independently, and in turn approach the priests (who are stationed at different parts of the church) to confess their sins. There will be soft music playing in the background to drown out the voices of those who are confessing.
The parish is a relatively small parish. My mother still attends this parish, and so do I when I visit my parents.
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benedictgal
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Under Redemptionis Sacramentum, this practice is reprobated:
I do not know if youi are confusing what is happening in the parish with a communal recociliation service where the Gospel is read and a homily preached. However, if this is going on during the Mass (and the celebrant, himself, is a party to it), then, it is wrong. Another question: does the parish not have confessionals that the priests can use? It certainly would help. But, that is another matter.
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MH84
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Thanks for this, I’ll read it closer later. I am certain that these reconciliation services were undertaken during Mass, I have participated in them as a teenager.
Benedictgal, as I get older and read more on websites like this one, Im realising more and more, how unorthodox some of the practices that were/are going on in that parish. The priests have always been good, but some of their decisions like the above are not supposed to happen.
I no longer look forward to attending Mass in that town anymore. I feel I should hand the priest a list of the errors that are taking place, but its hard because I know the priest quite well.
It has a confessional, but its used as a storage room. There are no regular Confession times, only by appointment. I dont know how many people have received the Eucharist without going to Confession beforehand, especially since no one is encouraged really to go to Confession. Like I said earlier, a couple of times (roughly) a year whoever attends the vigil Mass has the opportunity to go to Confession, which takes place (as I recall) after the Gospel. There may be a short introductory “homily” giving instructions about where the priest will be, and other instructions. One of the places as I recall, where one priest stands is normally near the altar, in the sanctuary (its not really a sanctuary, but the altar is there, and it is an elevated place, up a couple of steps). This is enough of a problem for me now in my books. People walking past the altar, and not genuflecting to the Blessed Sacrament.
After everyone who wants to has had their turn to confess their sins, Mass continues. To the best of my memory this is basically how these Masses are celebrated.
Oh, by the way, I remember that once I am not sure when or at what Mass (but I am fairly certain that it was during a Mass) we would write on a piece of paper our sins, then the person would read their sins or hand the list to the priest, and then we would burn the pieces of paper in some form of bucket/container in front of the altar. Anyone heard of a practice like this. This was some years ago, maybe 8-12 yrs ago if I had to guess.
I dont think our parish has ever had these. Is this a service only for Confession, no Mass. If so, then I can say with nearly 100% certainty that I do not remember our parishes having such services. But we have had many parish priests and visiting priests over the years.
Also, I just want to add that while growing up I have been in that town for nearly all my life, since I was born, and everything seemed normal, until the last 3 or so years when I moved, I was none the wiser. I was also a bit lukewarm in my faith.
Looking at other parishes and visiting websites like CAF has opened my eyes. Its all a bit sad really. I dont think the current priests think the are doing anything wrong, or most of the parishioners. The sisters there are quite “liberal” as well.
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DebChris
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I belong to a parish where confession is offered daily before the noon Mass. It is also offered Saturday before the vigil Mass, a standard time in many parishes. The confessional lines do become longer during Lent and Advent.
It is during Lent and Advent in which a communal penance or reconciliation service is also offered. The times when the various parishes will offer these services are listed in the Sunday bulletin. If you can’t make one, you might make it to one of the other services. My parish held their service last night.
The service is as has been described. There is a Liturgy of the Word=2 readings, responsorial, plus gospel. In this sense it is similar to Mass but it is not a Mass. There is no Eucharist.
After the gospel, the parish priest gives a homily. This is followed by an examination of conscience plus an act of contrition. After the Act of Contrition, visiting priests plus the parish priest take stations where they will hear individual confessions. It is only after individual confession that absolution is given along with the prescribed individual penance.
I enjoy these services. Very often during the homily I will receive insight regarding a particular sin in my life. The examination of conscience, read aloud, is generally more thorough in uncovering personal sinfulness than one I might try to make on my own.
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benedictgal
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This practice was reprobated in the 2000 Circular Letter regarding the Sacrament of Penance issued by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments:
I hope that this helps you.
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Volodymyr
Guest
CHRISTMAS FAST
I am surprised that there is now such difference viewa of Latin Advent time. For Orthodox we have Филиповка (Pilipovka) which begins on Feast St. Filip. Not such severe fast as Great Fast before Resurrection, but days of no meat or animal products - only fruits, vegetables. I know that St. Leo, Bishop of Rome, the Great has recommended this fast:
По словам Льва Великого, Рождественский пост есть жертва Богу за собранные плоды. “Как Господь ущедрил нас плодами земли, - пишет святитель, - так и мы во время этого поста должны быть щедры к бедным”.
This I can trans late as "by words of St. Leo Great, Christmas Fast is an offering to God for collected fruits. “As Lord generously gives us fruits of the earth - writes the Holy Saint - so and we at this time of Fast must be generous to the Poor.”
How is it no longer a Fast - when did Latins forget words of St Leo the Great.
I am surprised that there is now such difference viewa of Latin Advent time. For Orthodox we have Филиповка (Pilipovka) which begins on Feast St. Filip. Not such severe fast as Great Fast before Resurrection, but days of no meat or animal products - only fruits, vegetables. I know that St. Leo, Bishop of Rome, the Great has recommended this fast:
По словам Льва Великого, Рождественский пост есть жертва Богу за собранные плоды. “Как Господь ущедрил нас плодами земли, - пишет святитель, - так и мы во время этого поста должны быть щедры к бедным”.
This I can trans late as "by words of St. Leo Great, Christmas Fast is an offering to God for collected fruits. “As Lord generously gives us fruits of the earth - writes the Holy Saint - so and we at this time of Fast must be generous to the Poor.”
How is it no longer a Fast - when did Latins forget words of St Leo the Great.
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benedictgal
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I agree with you. That’s why Archbishop Burke’s comments concern me. I spoke to my PV after Mass this morning and he told me that Advent was still very much a penitential season, though not in the same vein as Lent. He, too, heard this “new” notion, but he still maintains that Advent has penitential characteristics. If that were not so, why does the Church use purple vestments? We may not have the Lenten regimen, but, there is still a penitential elelment involved.
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DebChris
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I remember Christmas Eve being a fast day when I was a child. Exceptions to fast days were made for those in the military, such as my father, that extended to their dependents when overseas. I like the focus on “collected fruits,” the graces we have received while Lent focuses on sorrow for the sins we have committed which led to the cross.
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MH84
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Actually, after looking at this post I think I may have attended one of these in that parish, because I remember some yrs ago a priest going through types of sins that we may be guilty of, but I dont know why, but I feel that this occurred during a Good Friday service (3.00 pm), but again I not sure. But if that was the case there wouldnt have been confessions during that time. Im confused
.But anyway, that does not mean there hasnt been Masses where there was the Sacrament of reconciliation also being carried out during the Mass.
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