The God Catholics worship vs. the God used in argument

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In my conversations with Catholic and other Christian friends I have noticed there seems to be a large difference in how they speak of God in a spiritual sense and how they speak of God in argument. The former is a God of love and service who cares and can intervene in human affairs like a parent of sorts; the latter is Aristotle’s God that is pure act, forever unmoving and existing only as the prime mover of all things. I have become troubled by this inconsistency.

Some friends argue that God the Father is the unmoving aspect of the Trinity, while Christ is able to move, acting in both the material and immaterial realm as a conduit of sorts due to his dual nature. This might work, but it seems to leave the Father as an impersonal force that isn’t relational in the sense that scripture implies.

How is God unchanging and at the same time loving, intervening, etc.?
 
Well, HE is unchangingly loving!

Aristotle is partly right, OUR LORD is the PRIME AND SOLE MOVER OF EVERYTHING, but that doesnt mean HE is cold hearted, Au contraire, take a look at yourself, how well you were pieced together, everything functioning just right, now let me ask, “would a cold hearted make you with such care and love?” if HE would just be the “WATCHMAKER”, why would HE have bothered creating everything so carefully? so orderly?
 
Our HEAVENLY FATHER and Our LORD are ONE, WITH THE MOST HOLY SPIRIT. You cannot seperate the THREE, DISTINCTLY THREE NATURES, YET ONE and say that ONE moves whilst the OTHER doesnt. THEY ARE PERFECTLY UNITED in everything!!

(How cute that must be, that awesome mutual love, between the MOST HOLY TRINITY!!)
 
In my conversations with Catholic and other Christian friends I have noticed there seems to be a large difference in how they speak of God in a spiritual sense and how they speak of God in argument. The former is a God of love and service who cares and can intervene in human affairs like a parent of sorts; the latter is Aristotle’s God that is pure act, forever unmoving and existing only as the prime mover of all things. I have become troubled by this inconsistency.
Honestly I have never noticed this, and I’ve read & partaken in a lot of discussions. Perhaps it is related to whatever objections are being addressed in the arguments.
 
The question posed dictates the answer given in an argument.

We usually talk about only one aspect of a person or thing in a discussion because we focus on what is relevant. If we’re debating the dangers of playing football, I might talk about a friend of mine who used to play football as a football player. I don’t have to say that he is also a loving father and devoted husband. He is, but that’s irrelevant to the argument. The fact that I did not mention his being a father in the argument does not mean he isn’t one.

Similarly, if an atheist and I are discussing the cause of the universe, it makes little sense to talk about how God loves us and is merciful because that isn’t part of the question. I would talk about God as the prime mover in that scenario. There is no discrepancy between the God I worship and the God I am talking about in an argument–I’m just focusing on one aspect of him.
 
Our HEAVENLY FATHER and Our LORD are ONE, WITH THE MOST HOLY SPIRIT. You cannot seperate the THREE, DISTINCTLY THREE NATURES, YET ONE and say that ONE moves whilst the OTHER doesnt. THEY ARE PERFECTLY UNITED in everything!!

(How cute that must be, that awesome mutual love, between the MOST HOLY TRINITY!!)
Please be careful with the terminology. The trinity is three persons (not natures) in one God. Only Jesus has two natures, one devine, one human, while remaining one person.

Otherwise the jist of your post is accurate.
 
In my conversations with Catholic and other Christian friends I have noticed there seems to be a large difference in how they speak of God in a spiritual sense and how they speak of God in argument. The former is a God of love and service who cares and can intervene in human affairs like a parent of sorts; the latter is Aristotle’s God that is pure act, forever unmoving and existing only as the prime mover of all things. I have become troubled by this inconsistency.

Some friends argue that God the Father is the unmoving aspect of the Trinity, while Christ is able to move, acting in both the material and immaterial realm as a conduit of sorts due to his dual nature. This might work, but it seems to leave the Father as an impersonal force that isn’t relational in the sense that scripture implies.

How is God unchanging and at the same time loving, intervening, etc.?
Need a big correction here. Aristotle’s " god " is not the God of Christianity. Even St Thomas didn’t hold Aristotle in that high of a regard. Most Catholics if they are using the Prime Mover argument to prove the existence of God, are using the Prime Mover as purified by St. Thomas. St Thomas gives five proofs for the existence of God, he then proceeds to analyse the nature of this God and to discover his attributes and his relationship with the universe and all creatures, including man and Angles. Now if you read Book One of the Summa Theologica you will find this " God reached by reason " has many of the attributes of the God of Christianity, indeed they are the same God because God reveales himself in all of creation. He is anything but cold and aloof. Indeed he is Love, Truth, Good, Merciful, Personal, etc. Take a look for yourself. newadvent.org/summa/1.htm

You will notice that Thomas makes plenty of use of the Scriptures. His whole point was to show how reason could indeed reach a certain true knowledge about the One True God of Christianity. Because the Scriptures say and the Church teaches that we may come to a certain and true knowledge of the One True God through reflection on his creation. And Thomas was impressed on just how close some Pagans had come to this knowledge, so he wanted to show that a Christian could too.👍👍
 
How is God unchanging and at the same time loving, intervening, etc.?
Brilliant and very challenging question, my friend! Please consider the following:
God is unchanging and at the same time loving, intervening, etc. because God is the person who is always freely being and spreading the means to freely be perfectly patient, kind, and motivated with all the body, spirit, thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self for the experience of limitless happiness with unbreakable peace for all, including the self.

He has never and will never change from being this, this is True Love, and this person is Jesus Christ: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and His Church is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!

I look forward to further discussion!
 
How is God unchanging and at the same time loving, intervening, etc.?
It is His character and attributes that do not change. Consider a ball, you roll it, it can move in space and time, but do the attributes of the ball change? If the ball is blue, is it no longer blue if it moves?

You can love someone without changing who you are. You can save someone from an oncoming bus without changing your character. In the same way, God can be unchanging in who He is and still be loving, caring, and intervene in our lives.
 
How is God unchanging and at the same time loving, intervening, etc.?
God is unchanging in and of himself. God is not bound by time God is boundless in all things. The universe he created however is not boundless.It has rules and regulations that govern its function. As such God would only ever act in a way that was logical and made sense within the boundaries of the universe he has created.

I would suggest that it appears to us that God is changing because we are temporal creatures and that is how we have to perceive things. For God to act in our universe he acts in a way that would appear to us to be a change.

just my $0.02
 
I suppose it is impossible to really say much of anything regarding God and his relation to time since we as humans cannot understand a non-temporal framework.

I am going to lay out an example and tell me if you think it illustrates the Catholic perspective of God adequately:

Lets say on October 25, 2030 I am going to pray that my brother recover miraculously from an illness and God grants my request. From our temporal perspective it seems like at one instance -prior to my praying- God went from not being in the process of healing my brother to healing him. This would constitute a change from a temporal perspective because God appears to be moving from potency to act. However from God’s unlimited perspective he is always in the process of pealing my brother on October 25, 2030 and thus cannot be said to be changing since he is always doing it. Would this be a correct understanding?
 
I suppose it is impossible to really say much of anything regarding God and his relation to time since we as humans cannot understand a non-temporal framework.

I am going to lay out an example and tell me if you think it illustrates the Catholic perspective of God adequately:

Lets say on October 25, 2030 I am going to pray that my brother recover miraculously from an illness and God grants my request. From our temporal perspective it seems like at one instance -prior to my praying- God went from not being in the process of healing my brother to healing him. This would constitute a change from a temporal perspective because God appears to be moving from potency to act. However from God’s unlimited perspective he is always in the process of pealing my brother on October 25, 2030 and thus cannot be said to be changing since he is always doing it. Would this be a correct understanding?
Sounds about right to me.
 
In my conversations with Catholic and other Christian friends I have noticed there seems to be a large difference in how they speak of God in a spiritual sense and how they speak of God in argument. The former is a God of love and service who cares and can intervene in human affairs like a parent of sorts; the latter is Aristotle’s God that is pure act, forever unmoving and existing only as the prime mover of all things. I have become troubled by this inconsistency.
May I offer a few comments? Some are forgetting the key to the first way. It is precisely this. Thomas says "…whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that toward which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves in as much as it is in act.

This means that " …a certain potentiallity is actualized by something whose potentiality is itself actualized by something whose potentiality is itself actualized by ( something whose potentiality is actualized by, etc ) and so on…such a series can only possibly terminate in something which is not reduced to act or actualized by anything else, but which just isin act or actual and thus " unmoving "…Eventually this regress must terminate in something which here and now actualizes potentialities without itself being actualized, an unmoved mover. " ( Edward Feser, in Aquinas, pg 73)

So the Unmoved Mover ( Aristotle’s Prime Mover as interpreted by Aquinas) is Actus Purus or pure actuality having no potentiality whatsoever. Such a being, a Pure Actuality is immediately recognized by Christians as God.

Several things must be seen about such an Acutality. First, it must be outside the ontological members of the series since it is a pure actuality having no potentiality whereas the members of the series are all beings composed of actuality and potentiality.

Secondly such a series could actually be eternal since the Unmoved Mover itself is outside the series ontologically. One of our posters objected that an Unmoved Mover would not be required if the series was eternal. This answers that objection. It must be remembered that Thomas designed the proof to account for the possibility of an eternal universe. His proof shows that even if the universe is eternal an Unmoved Mover is required. What most people forget is that the Unmoved Mover is ontologically outside the series. Thomas could have made this more clear but he does explain himself in other places. However it is clear from the argument he gave if you think about it thoroughly.

Now it can be shown that all the proofs conclude in a First Something which can indeed be reduced to a Pure Actuality and thus can be identified easily as the Christian God. Thomas will go on in Book 1, Question 3 and following to analyize the nature of the Unmoved Mover, etc. or God. He will show that the First Being, God, has all the characteristics of the Christian God, including Intelligence, Will, Justice, Love, Goodness, Mercy, Personhood, etc. is Omnipotent, Omnescient, Omnipresent and, the creator, maintainer, and orderer of all that exists.
Some friends argue that God the Father is the unmoving aspect of the Trinity, while Christ is able to move, acting in both the material and immaterial realm as a conduit of sorts due to his dual nature. This might work, but it seems to leave the Father as an impersonal force that isn’t relational in the sense that scripture implies.
From what I included above, it should be clear that Thomas’ Unmoved Mover is not an impersonal force. Reason alone can lead us only so far. It goes far enough to see that the Unmoved Mover is easily identified with the God of Revelation who is indeed personal, they are one in the same Beings.
How is God unchanging and at the same time loving, intervening, etc.?
See remarks above. 👍👍👍
 
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