The God of the Old Testament: Father or Son?

[cothrige]

I have been wondering lately, who exactly speaks to man in the Old Testament, such as Moses, Adam, Noah and so on. Was it God the Father, or God the Son? I have always assumed it was the Father though I don’t really think I have ever given it a lot of thought. I don’t know why it came to mind now, but I just wondered if my assumption is true, or if the Church had ever really spoken or revealed anything about whether the God of the Old Testament, as revealed to man, was one specific person of the Trinity.

Thanks for any help.

Patrick

 

[Will_B]

I have been wondering lately, who exactly speaks to man in the Old Testament, such as Moses, Adam, Noah and so on. Was it God the Father, or God the Son? I have always assumed it was the Father though I don’t really think I have ever given it a lot of thought. I don’t know why it came to mind now, but I just wondered if my assumption is true, or if the Church had ever really spoken or revealed anything about whether the God of the Old Testament, as revealed to man, was one specific person of the Trinity.

Thanks for any help.

Patrick

Wow, what a loaded question!!!

You have to understand the Trinity to fully understand who did the talking…

Going back to Genius, when God said “Let us make man in Our Image” you first get a glimpse of the Trinity… For the Spirit was over the face of the deep…

Then in the Gospel of St. John we read… In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God…

If you follow through, what ever God the Father said, was done by God the Son, with the power of God the Holy Spirit…

The key in my second sentence is “To fully understand the Trinity” and no one here on earth fully understands… There is a lot of good theology, that may shed some light on the subject. (But fully understand?)



Will B.

 

[teachccd]

I have been wondering lately, who exactly speaks to man in the Old Testament, such as Moses, Adam, Noah and so on. Was it God the Father, or God the Son? I have always assumed it was the Father though I don’t really think I have ever given it a lot of thought. I don’t know why it came to mind now, but I just wondered if my assumption is true, or if the Church had ever really spoken or revealed anything about whether the God of the Old Testament, as revealed to man, was one specific person of the Trinity.

Thanks for any help.

Patrick

There really is no “God of the Old Testament” as opposed to the “God of the New Testament”. There is always one God and our one God is eternally triune. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one in essence and exist eternally. So when God spoke to Moses we see the Father speaking through His Word ( the Son) in their Love (the Holy Spirit). The Trinity is fully revealed in the incarnation but is eternally present. So in the Old Testament beginning with the creation, when God expresses Himself it is always the Father, through the Son, in the Spirit. Jesus later reveals that there is a relational difference between the persons of the Trinity but as God all three are present. That is why when we receive the Eucharist we receive Jesus; body, blood , soul and divinity. In His divinity we also receive the Father and the Holy Spirit as the essence of God is eternally inseparable…teachccd

 

[cothrige]

There really is no “God of the Old Testament” as opposed to the “God of the New Testament”.

Oh my, yes I agree. I never meant to imply one as opposed to the other. I merely wondered if the Person who walked in the garden with Adam, or who spoke from the bush, or passed by on the mountain were a particular Person of the Trinity, and if so, which? I had always kind of thought of God in the Old Testament as the Father, but have begun wondering if I have perhaps been rash.

There is always one God and our one God is eternally triune. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one in essence and exist eternally. So when God spoke to Moses we see the Father speaking through His Word ( the Son) in their Love (the Holy Spirit). The Trinity is fully revealed in the incarnation but is eternally present. So in the Old Testament beginning with the creation, when God expresses Himself it is always the Father, through the Son, in the Spirit. Jesus later reveals that there is a relational difference between the persons of the Trinity but as God all three are present. That is why when we receive the Eucharist we receive Jesus; body, blood , soul and divinity. In His divinity we also receive the Father and the Holy Spirit as the essence of God is eternally inseparable…teachccd

So you would say that as you see it it is entirely Triune? It wasn’t the Father in the garden say, but rather a manifestation of all three Persons of the Trinity? Okay, I can see that. I certainly wouldn’t want to limit the Holy Trinity in any way.

 

[NoelFitz]

I agree with the replies here and disagree with Marcion who claimed that the God of the Old and New Testaments differ.

There is only one God and in Him there are three Persons.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

I have been wondering lately, who exactly speaks to man in the Old Testament, such as Moses, Adam, Noah and so on. Was it God the Father, or God the Son? I have always assumed it was the Father though I don’t really think I have ever given it a lot of thought. I don’t know why it came to mind now, but I just wondered if my assumption is true, or if the Church had ever really spoken or revealed anything about whether the God of the Old Testament, as revealed to man, was one specific person of the Trinity.

Thanks for any help.

Patrick

Hi Patrick, I see all three members of the Trinity in the Old Testament. For example, Jesus tells us no one has ever seen the Father and lived. And, yet there are passages where people have seen God and lived. Therefore in those texts I think those people saw the Son of God. example Exodus 3, or that guy who wrestled God.

 

[Jolly_Joe]

I agree with Daniel. We see for instance that Moses spoke face to face with God. But yet, when he asked to see the glory of God, he could not look upon his face. So I believe Moses spoke face to face with the Son, but could not gaze upon the face of the Father.

We see a similar thing with Gideon, who when he realized he had looked upon God expected to perish, but he did not.

JJ

 

[cothrige]

Hi Patrick, I see all three members of the Trinity in the Old Testament. For example, Jesus tells us no one has ever seen the Father and lived. And, yet there are passages where people have seen God and lived. Therefore in those texts I think those people saw the Son of God. example Exodus 3, or that guy who wrestled God.

Yes, I can see that. Good point about seeing the Father and living. I would imagine that in those instances the only possibility would be the Son or the Holy Spirit. I suppose my assumption about the Old Testament encounters with God being basically with the Father would likely have been over simplifications on my part.

 

[teachccd]

I agree with Daniel. We see for instance that Moses spoke face to face with God. But yet, when he asked to see the glory of God, he could not look upon his face. So I believe Moses spoke face to face with the Son, but could not gaze upon the face of the Father.

We see a similar thing with Gideon, who when he realized he had looked upon God expected to perish, but he did not.

JJ

This was before the incarnation so when Moses spoke face to face with God he was before the triune God. The Son, who is known as Jesus after the incarnation, was no less God when Moses spoke to God. To say that Moses could not gaze at the face of the Father yet was able to gaze at the Son would be to undermine the consubstantial nature of our triune God. Father , Son and Holy Spirit are three persons in one God. They are infinitely inseparable. You CANNOT see God without seeing Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Word of God from the beginning (see John 1:1) which is an eternal generation from the Father. There was never a “time” when the Father did not have a (Word) Son nor was there a “time” when the Father and the Son did not have the (Love) Holy Spirit.

We must realize that we can NEVER comprehend the Trinity but we can apprehend the revelation given to us by Christ and His Church. The Church teaches that the three persons in the one God are consubsatntial and cannot be spearated and that is why I mentioned that when we receive the Eucharist we receive Jesus; body, blood, soul and divinity. In His divinity we receive the Father and the Holy Spirit. We cannot divide the Trinity. Also, in closing, we can rightfully call Mary the Mother of God. While she is not the mother of the eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit, she is the mother of Jesus whose person is fully human and fully divine. In His divinity, Jesus is God. (Consubstantial with the Father and the Holy Spirit).

Do I comprehend this? Absolutely not and neither does any human being. However, we must not fall into the many heresies that the Church fought against to maintain the revealed truth regarding the nature of our God. This is what is revealed and this is what we must believe.

 

[NoelFitz]

I agree with the replies here and disagree with Marcion who claimed that the God of the Old and New Testaments differ.

There is only one God and in Him there are three Persons.

In writing this I did not stress that prior to the incarnation the second person of the Trinity did not have a human nature, as he had not yet become man. So Jesus Christ had one nature and was one person in OT times…

 

[adstrinity]

Hi Patrick, I see all three members of the Trinity in the Old Testament. For example, Jesus tells us no one has ever seen the Father and lived. And, yet there are passages where people have seen God and lived. Therefore in those texts I think those people saw the Son of God. example Exodus 3, or that guy who wrestled God.

Who wrestled God? Jacob wrestled an angel.