The God who wasn't there.

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Bernhard_Bajak

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Hi, I’m new to the Forum and have a question about the video “The God Who Wasn’t There”. My son is quickly falling away from the faith and this video is one of the reasons.
Has anyone seen a Catholic answer to this movie?
Thanks for any help.
BB
 
Bernhard_Bajak said:
Hi, I’m new to the Forum and have a question about the video “The God Who Wasn’t There”. My son is quickly falling away from the faith and this video is one of the reasons.
Has anyone seen a Catholic answer to this movie?
Thanks for any help.
BB
Click to expand...
I had heard of this movie, but I havent seen it. It would seem though that his lack of faith is not due to this video specificaly, rather he is using the video as an excuse (both to himself and others) for his falling away. In such a case, refuting the video will not have much an effect on him as the issue lies much deeper. Prayer is the best remedy for this.

I will say a decade of the Rosary for him.
 
I haven’t seen the movie. How old is he?

Atheists now evangelizing, so it is important to help them understand each argument.

One of the first arguments Atheists make is that Jesus didn’t exist, this is reject by almost every historian, because, the Gospels are four different accounts of Jesus. This is counted as precedence for any other historical event (in fact, they look for just two, but there are four). Plus possibly a few other artifacts and secular reflections. Now, there are just an enormous number of arguments out there, so I’ll need to know exactly your son finds so compelling. Can you tell me more about him? You’ll need to discuss each with him. He hopefully will come back when he understands the Church even if he takes a while.

May peace be with you.

David
 
He has been reading numerous books I don’t remember the titles. I was hoping for an answer to TGTWT because this is the video he gave me. “Jesus didn’t exist because the Gospels were written fifty years after His death”. I have been waiting to watch until after I read or saw something about it.
 
This argument is considered ridiculous and readily dismissed, as I said, by almost all eminent historians, and is likely to stay that way. Occasionally this argument is popularized, especially as more time goes by. If your son doesn’t believe you have him look up “Jesus” on the Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus

Once you get this far, you’ll see that Jesus was crucified around 36AD, which is just a decade or three before the first book, that survived to the cannon was written.

That fact that we have many ancient copies of the texts suggests they were not rewritten. This is likely another discussion you’ll have.

If you need more help holla’.

David
 
Thanks, no mater what I say he just smiles and says watch the video.
 
I’m sorry that is happening. Trust me, the video is, exuse my language, a total load of ****. It’s poorly researched and totally inacurate.

I highly recommend Tektonics.org and Lee Stobel’s videos.

Jesus’ life is a well-documented historical fact. Jesus Christ was publicly executed in Judea in the 1st Century A.D., under Pontius Pilate, by means of crucifixion, at the behest of the Jewish Sanhedrin.

The non-Christian historical accounts of Flavius Josephus, Cornelius Tacitus, Lucian of Samosata, Maimonides and even the Jewish Sanhedrin corroborate the early Christian eyewitness accounts of these important historical aspects of the death of Jesus Christ.

The 4 separate written Gospels attest to Jesus’ life, death and resurrection. Lee Stobel has a lot of information on the dates of the Gospels.

Some more Collateral (external) evidence of Jesus/Yeshua

The Jewish Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) from the Tannaitic Period recorded: *“On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [the Nazarene] was hanged”… *

On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [the Nazarene] was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place a herald went forth and cried, “He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor, let him come and plead on his behalf.” And since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged on the eve of Passover." Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a)

*When it says “hanged” it is referring to being “hung” on a cross.

The emperor Tiberius reigned from 14-37A.D. This is the period during which Jesus the Christ died on the cross . Tacitus wrote about how the beliefs of this group (Christians) “Broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of (these ideas), but even in Rome”, and he goes on to describe how the Christians were widely hated, and many put to death in Rome. All this accords with the New Testament record of Jesus, the disciples and the apostles first spreading their teaching in Judaea, and then throughout the Roman world, including Rome, with great opposition to them.

Suetonius, another Roman historian, commented on the reign of Claudius (41-54 AD): “Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he (Claudius) expelled them from the city”. “Chrestus” is another spelling of “Christ”. Incidentally, Acts 18:2 describes how a Jewish couple named Aquila and Priscilla had to leave Rome because of the persecution of the Jews.
 
*Continued from above

Josephus (born in Jerusalem 37 A.D.) the First Century Jewish General, Traitor, and excellent historian wrote the following about Jesus in his Antiquities (18:63), while writing for the Romans:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing among us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not cease. On the third day he appeared to them restored to life. For the prophets of God had prophesied these and myriads of other marvellous things about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still up to now, not disappeared.

This above passage is known as the Testimonium Flavianum. The “Testimonium” is found in every copy of Jesusphus in existence.

In book 20, Josephus also wrote the following:

Second, in Book 20 there is what could be called a passing reference to Jesus in a paragraph describing the murder of Jesus’ brother, James, at the hands of Ananus, the High Priest.

But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as lawbreakers, he delivered them over to be stoned.

In the British Museum an interesting manuscript preserving the text of a letter written some time later than A.D. 73, but how much later we cannot be sure. This letter was sent by a Syrian named Mara Bar-Serpion to his son Serapion. Mara Bar-Serapion was in prison at the time, but he wrote to encourage his son in the pursuit of wisdom, and pointed out that those who persecuted wise men were overtaken by misfortune. He instances the deaths of Socrates, Pythagoras and Christ:

What advantage did the 'Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished…the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion…"

Tacitus was a Roman historian wrote two major books about the first century (“Annals” and the “Histories”). In both of these books, Jesus and Christianity are mentioned. In about 115 A.D. Tacitus wrote the following in his “Annals”:

“A class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate”.
 
Do you know why kids become atheists?

Because it’s “cool”.

It’s like smoking cigarettes - no matter how goofy you can prove it to be, it’s still “cool” because it’s something all the other “cool” people promote.

Unfortunately, the Catholic Faith hasn’t been “cool” since the days of King Richard the Lionhearted and King Saint Loius IX. This is why the Faith has been losing adherents among Europeans and their descendants for the last 700 years.
 
KofC660 said:
Do you know why kids become atheists?

Because it’s “cool”.

It’s like smoking cigarettes - no matter how goofy you can prove it to be, it’s still “cool” because it’s something all the other “cool” people promote.

Unfortunately, the Catholic Faith hasn’t been “cool” since the days of King Richard the Lionhearted and King Saint Loius IX. This is why the Faith has been losing adherents among Europeans and their descendants for the last 700 years.
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That’s so true. I brought my Bible to school once to read, and some kids ask me why was reading it, because it was “uncool.”
 
Well, I understand atheism. I don’t need to see the video, but just mention that if most well studied, trained, historians, who are statistically mostly atheist believe that Jesus was a historical person, then he should give it more attention.

The video is a sort of cult in and of itself, which could be playing on his youthful pride that he knows something other people don’t.

There are a lot of people we know existed with a lot less evidence than Jesus. Most of the time historian use two things that coincide in ancient righting to accept that something was or occurred. In this case we have four evangelizers. He is proud, and is sure you’ll be “changed” by the video.

Good Luck. Watch it and tell us how it goes. You might try and get him to agree to discuss atheism if you watch the video though, as a matter of respect for the time you put into the video.

And, if you want to show what atheism is like, or hell on Earth in a way, you could look up some divorce and abortion statistics from the Soviet Union and China (they were warned!).
 
Man said:
And, if you want to show what atheism is like, or hell on Earth in a way, you could look up some divorce and abortion statistics from the Soviet Union and China (they were warned!).
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Hey, he doesn’t even have to look any further than the United States for those horrible statistics!
 
I should add that according to the Oxford Bible commentary the Gospels appear to have been put together using several “earlier sources.” These sources could easily be written document or (hold your breath) eye witnesses.

I like my Oxford commentary because it is put together as a group effort by atheists and Jews in addition to historian, and literature people.

And, about the atheist doctorates in this country, it seems that there is an increasing, not decreasing prevalence (%) of eminent researches who believe in God. Also, the Statistics showed a continued strong showing of Jewish researchers 15% down now to 14%. So that’s were that discussion could go…

Obviously thinking about your son too…

David
 
Sorry I missed this thead. The review by GDon already linked is short and to the point. Mike Licona has a more detailed response I’ve edited and put on my site. Print it out, give to your son. Plus I’m working on another one, don’t know when I’ll finish. Covers the "parallel pagan" idea in Part 1, and the video in Part 2.

www.Tektonics.org is best in this area.

You can also show him some of the William Lane Craig and other debates on my audio page.

Phil P
 
Bernhard_Bajak said:
He has been reading numerous books I don’t remember the titles. I was hoping for an answer to TGTWT because this is the video he gave me. “Jesus didn’t exist because the Gospels were written fifty years after His death”. I have been waiting to watch until after I read or saw something about it.
Click to expand...
I would refer them to Josephus, whose account of Jewish history specifically refers to Jesus.

Josephus was not a Christian, so independent historical accounts of Christ outside of the gospel might help.
 
Bernhard_Bajak said:
Hi, I’m new to the Forum and have a question about the video “The God Who Wasn’t There”. My son is quickly falling away from the faith and this video is one of the reasons.
Has anyone seen a Catholic answer to this movie?
Thanks for any help.
BB
Click to expand...
How are you doing? I have a lot more material about the historical evidence of Jesus if you are interested.

Here’s a good site that has article, audios, and videos about the fact of Jesus’ existance: upontruth.com/categories/jesus.html

Hope this Helps! 🙂
 
Bernhard,

I agree with the previous recommendations about tektonics.org, but here is some info on a pointed response:

Flemming’s DVD The God Who Wasn’t There is the reason American Vision Press published my book Manifested in the Flesh: How the Historical Evidence for Jesus Refutes Modern Mystics and Skeptics.

I apologize if this seems like too much of an advertisement, but I hate to see people who could benefit not know about us. Forgive my imposition.

You can download FOR FREE the first 40 pages (Foreword, Preface, Intro, and Chapter 1) of my book HERE:

Book here.

I also did three lectures (based on the book) which were filmed and made into a DVD series “Defeatin the Myth-storians.” DVD’s here.

While I am not Roman Catholic, I did make good use of conservative Catholic scholars such as the Sulpician Raymond Brown and especially the Jesuit Joseph Fitzmyer. I also spend a great deal of time quoting and defending the early Church fathers - you can’t get much more Catholic than that! 🙂

Again, I hope this is not considered too much of an advertisment. I do hope to help.

Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
 
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