The God who wasn't there.

[Jimdandy]

To start the book of revelations was not written after the 10 commandments it was written around 400 BC. IIts fun schooling kool aid drinkers like youalso you are right oracles are not teaching centers but they will educate you on hinduism and how krishna was the founder and how she and Jesus are completely similar…also to a previous statement about global enslavement. Its is a good chance that this will happen in the near future thanks to the bilderberg group.

At first I laughed at your great line ''Its fun schooling kool aid drinkers like you"

But you are serious, aren’t you?.. I remember when I started to interact in college with others, their secular ideas helped to keep me spiritually dead for years.

All throughout the history of man you may find very similar stories that seem to fit a pattern of how man reaches to explain life, however, it only through a gift from God that you will receive faith in the Truth.

Keep researching, pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit and never stop until you are sure you are at peace with yourself.

May God Bless you on your journey and fill you with His Grace.

 

[mchjm08]

The comment i made about the bilderberg group is true. they are know as the new world organization. The elite of the world are included here such as David Rockefeller, Gerald ford, Colin Powell, Pierre Trudeau, Tony Blair, Felipe Gonzales and the list goes on and on…please reaserch your context before you post something completely stupid.

 

[patrick457]

so you are telling me that you rather believe a piece of writting that was made probably in a cave and translated hundreds of times…

One thing: the writers of the New Testament were not Troglodytes (cave-dwellers). We don’t know where they wrote their books, but we do know that Paul at times wrote his letters while in prison (note that the concept of ‘writing’ is different from today; you could have a secretary, an ‘anamneusis’, write a letter for you and you would still be considered as being the ‘author’ of the letter. Paul certainly seems to have made use of one, as we can infer from some of his Epistles) while John, the author of Revelation (the Biblical one written in the closing years of the 1st century, not the one you infer was written in 400 BC) says he wrote his while in exile in Patmos.

If you are looking for someone who wrote his work in a cave, check out Muhammad.

there are many mistakes for example the fact that in the catholic bible it states that jesus will be with us until the end of time but really instead of time it means aeon which is age and it makes sense because the bible goes through 3 ages while predicting 4th which is the age of piscies.

They are not really mistakes; the word ‘aion’ means “age”, “forever” or “for eternity” in Greek. In Homer it typically refers to life or lifespan, but by at least Hesiod it could refer to ages or generations. It has a similar meaning to the Sanskrit kalpa and Hebrew olam. A cognate Latin word aevum for “age” is present in words such as longevity and mediæval.

Whilst New-Age authors use ‘aeon’ to refer to a particular age (you know the Age of Aquarius and whatnot), and the Gnostics used ‘aeon’ to refer to the various emanations of God, in reality it is just another mundane word. So Bible translators did not really make an error; they just translated a word which many happen to use in other contexts.

PS. In your profile you list yourself as ‘Catholic’, yet you seem to hold (sorry for this term) rather ‘strange’ beliefs. Most curious…

 

[patrick457]

The comment i made about the bilderberg group is true. they are know as the new world organization. The elite of the world are included here such as David Rockefeller, Gerald ford, Colin Powell, Pierre Trudeau, Tony Blair, Felipe Gonzales and the list goes on and on…please reaserch your context before you post something completely stupid.

From Wikipedia:

The Bilderberg Group, Bilderberg conference, or Bilderberg Club is an unofficial annual invitation-only conference of around 130 guests, most of whom are persons of influence in the fields of business, media and politics.

The elite group meets annually at luxury hotels or resorts throughout the world — normally in Europe — and once every four years in the United States or Canada. It has an office in Leiden, South Holland, Netherlands. The 2007 conference took place from May 31 to June 3 at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Istanbul, Turkey. The 2008 conference took place in Chantilly, Virginia, United States.

I can see that they’ve been accused with secretive and nefarious world plots and trying to build a ‘New World Order’ or ‘One World Government’, whatever that is, like for example the John Birch Society.

 

[mchjm08]

Apart from the cartoonish depictions in the Book of Revelation, the main source of this idea comes from Matthew 28:20, where Jesus says “I will be with you even to the end of the world.” However, in King James Version, “world” is a mistranslation, among many mistranslations. The actual word being used is “aeon”, which means “age.” “I will be with you even to the end of the age.” Which is true, as Jesus’ Solar Piscean personification will end when the Sun enters the Age of Aquarius. The entire concept of end times and the end of the world is a misinterpreted astrological allegory.

And the book of revelations is one of the most controversial books in the history of christianity not only beacuse the time period from whish it could have been written was between 400 BC and the 3rd century.

The Bible is nothing more than an astro-theological literary fold hybrid, just like nearly all religious myths before it. In fact, the aspect of transference, of one character’s attributes to a new character, can be found within the book itself. In the Old Testament there’s the story of Joseph. Joseph was a prototype for Jesus. Joseph was born of a miracle birth, Jesus was born of a miracle birth. Joseph was of 12 brothers, Jesus had 12 disciples. Joseph was sold for 20 pieces of silver, Jesus was sold for 30 pieces of silver. ] Brother “Judah” suggests the sale of Joseph, disciple “Judas” suggests the sale of Jesus. Joseph began his work at the age of 30, Jesus began his work at the age of 30. The parallels go on and on.

 

[mchjm08]

As for the comment about reading bout Muhammad. The quran is one of the scriptures that has not been touched and tampered with for thousands of years. That is why so many people are turning into muslims.

 

[mchjm08]

From Wikipedia:

I can see that they’ve been accused with secretive and nefarious world plots and trying to build a ‘New World Order’ or ‘One World Government’, whatever that is, like for example the John Birch Society.

Actually the John Birch Society is against a one world government but it has around 100,000 members but only 30 elites while the bilderberg group is a group full of around 150 of the worlds elites including the owner of the world bank, kings and queens around the world and key prime minister.

 

[VociMike]

Mike,

I am not here to discuss the basics of english grammar. I am not trying to save anyone from anything but I’m am trying to get ignorant people to open up and use their common sense. For example the catholic use of an all knowing supreme beign that knows everything at all times…let me ask you something do you believe that the future is pre written?

I think that God, who is outside of time, knows and indeed is present at every moment past, present and future.

And that’s not just a Catholic idea by any means.

 

[VociMike]

mchjm08, I think I sense the core of your objection. You seem to be claiming that Christianity is not true because other earlier religions had similar teachings and even similar stories. But why in the world would you rightly expect otherwise? What reason do you have to expect that the true faith given by God to his children would be different in each and every way from every single prior religion? There is no objective reason for you to expect this. You only think this should be the case, without anything to back up your opinion.

So I’ll tell you why other religions have glimpses of the teachings of Christ, the Catholic faith. It is because God made us in his image and likeness, and he made us to seek him and to be with him. Because of our fallen nature that search, which is at the core of our human being, has resulted in much error, but it has also resulted in much truth because that truth is written by God in every human heart.

In the good of every other religion you see flashes of God’s law written into the hearts of its practicioners. But beginning in the faith of the ancient Jews, and coming to fullness in the Catholic faith given by Jesus Christ, God Among Us, we have the final and perfect revelation of God to all mankind. So as you see, we have a perfectly good and logical explanation for why things are the way they are. But you only have an unsupported opinion as to why things are the way they are.

 

[patrick457]

And the book of revelations is one of the most controversial books in the history of christianity not only beacuse the time period from whish it could have been written was between 400 BC and the 3rd century.

How can the Book of Revelation (not Revelations; the Greek word ‘Apokalypsis’ is in the singular, not plural) be written in 400 BC when its very first words are:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Here it is in the original Greek:

Apokalypsis Iēsou Christou, ēn edōken autō o Theos, deixai tois doulois autou a dei genesthai en tachei, kai esēmanen aposteilas dia tou angelou autou tō doulō autou Ioannē, os emartyrēsen ton logon tou Theou kai tēn martyrian Iēsou Christou, osa eiden.

Jesus was born in the period between 6 BC-1 AD; how can a book have His name if He wasn’t even born?

The Bible is nothing more than an astro-theological literary fold hybrid, just like nearly all religious myths before it. In fact, the aspect of transference, of one character’s attributes to a new character, can be found within the book itself. In the Old Testament there’s the story of Joseph. Joseph was a prototype for Jesus. Joseph was born of a miracle birth, Jesus was born of a miracle birth. Joseph was of 12 brothers, Jesus had 12 disciples. Joseph was sold for 20 pieces of silver, Jesus was sold for 30 pieces of silver. ] Brother “Judah” suggests the sale of Joseph, disciple “Judas” suggests the sale of Jesus. Joseph began his work at the age of 30, Jesus began his work at the age of 30. The parallels go on and on.

We Catholics have a word for that: ‘Eisegesis’. We believe that throughout the Old Testament, there are certain prefigurements pointing to Jesus, known as ‘types’.

 

[Johenz]

Y’all are much more patient than I am. I’d have given up on any fan of the nut case Archaya S long ago.

 

[PhilVaz]

Mch << I have not seen the new movie but i have seen another documentary which explains that the religion of christianity is a complete fraud. i recommend everyone watches it, it is free and its it posted on www.ZeitgeistMovie.com. it comes complete with pages of sources. >>

Sorry I missed this thread earlier today. I spent a week on “Zeitgeist” earlier this year:

All About Horus: An Egyptian Copy of Christ?

The “sources” used for Zeitgeist are outdated, unreliable, non-academic, non-scholarly, speculative, and/or conspiracy-laden tomes written by folks who are not trained in biblical scholarship, historical Jesus studies, Egyptology, or related fields, and/or rely on other non-scholarly, outdated, pseudo-historical books, and are therefore filled with errors:

Acharya S (2 books), Gerald Massey (2 books), Thomas Doane, James Frazer, Freke/Gandy, etc are all grossly wrong or very outdated.

Scholarly and more up to date sources (for Part 1), but you have to go to a public or university library as I have to find them:

The Routledge Dictionary of Egyptian gods and goddesses by George Hart (Routledge, 2005)
Dictionary of Ancient Egypt edited by Toby Wilkinson (Thames & Hudson, 2005)
Gods and Men in Egypt, 3000 BCE to 395 CE by F. Dunand and C. Zivie-Coche (Cornell Univ Press, 2004)
The Complete gods and goddesses of Ancient Egypt by Richard H. Wilkinson (Thames & Hudson, 2003)
Handbook of Egyptian Mythology by Geraldine Pinch (Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO, 2002)
The Ancient Gods Speak: A Guide to Egyptian Religion edited by Donald B. Redford (Oxford Univ Press, 2002)
The Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt edited by Margaret Bunson (Oxford: Facts of File, 1991, 2002 revised)
The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt edited by Donald B. Redford (Oxford University Press, 2001)
The gods of Egypt by Claude Traunecker, trans by David Lorton (Cornell University Press, 2001)
Death and Salvation in Ancient Egypt by Jan Assmann, trans by David Lorton (Cornell Univ Press, 2001)

The errors in “Zeitgeist” are many. He gets virtually everything wrong on Horus. The only thing he gets right is that Horus was “some god from Egypt.” For example:

(1) Horus was not born on Dec 25 (neither was Jesus)
(2) Horus was not virgin born of Isis-Meri
(3) Horus birth was not accompanied by a star in the east and three kings
(4) Horus was not a “solar messiah”
(5) Horus was not a prodigal teacher at 12
(6) Horus was not baptized at 30 by Anup the baptizer (he was an embalmer)
(7) Horus did not have 12 disciples he traveled with
(8) Horus was not called The Truth, The Light, God’s Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God
(9) Horus was not crucified (he was injured, but never died according to the story)
(10) Horus was not buried for three days
(11) Horus was not resurrected

None of these are true when you check the modern, scholarly sources I have listed above. The only thing Jesus and Horus have in common are:

“…I find the comparison between Horus and Jesus to consist of the following: they were of royal descent, they allegedly worked miracles and there were murder plots against them.” (from an atheist blogger Consigliere on “Ending the Myth of Horus”)

I concur with these, although the healing miracles are associated with Horus-the-Child. Horus was (like Jesus) a “son of God” since he was son of Isis and Osiris, and he was (like Jesus) a lord and a king, as Jesus was “King of Kings” and “Lord of Lords” (book of Revelation). That’s it.

I answer in detail everything on Horus, and deal with the astrological aspects (or "astro-theology") with help from biblical scholar Ben Witherington, and the "Irish" cross in my article. I do not deal with Parts 2 and 3, but others have.

The majority of the “Zeitgeist” material for Part 1 comes from: Acharya S and Jordan Maxwell who are neither biblical scholars nor trained Egyptologists. They do not know what they are talking about. Get to a library, or at least be more discerning if you research this online.

If you have other points you want to bring up about Part 1, do so. The "Zeitgeist" video has been discussed in a number of threads in here. The "God Who Wasn’t There" is actually a 2005 DVD so it’s older than “Zeitgeist” but the same ideas apply. Both have been obliterated in detail on my site.

Phil P

 

[PhilVaz]

Mch << To make it short and sweet i am a child of catholic parents but i also keep an open mind, i believe in a supreme being i just do not believe in Jesus Christ. I have done my reaserch to make sure i am saying the absolute truth and if you are interested in having a discussion i will be more than glad to have a LONG chat with you. >>

This is from your initial post in the thread. You have NOT done your research if you think anything in “Zeitgeist” is true. I have gone to the library, checked out the books, checked out or paid for many of the “Zeitgeist” sources (Part 1), and found them grossly wrong and in error. Anyone who does this will come to the same conclusions. Absolute truth in “Zeitgeist” ? You gotta be kidding.

Doing “research” does not mean doing a quick Google search. You can use Google, but you must be discerning on what you find that way. You can go to a bookstore or order online any number of books that blow away "Zeitgeist" and "The God Who Wasn’t There":

Jesus Under Fire: Modern Scholarship Reinvents the Historical Jesus edited by Wilkins / Moreland (Zondervan, 1995)

Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence by Robert van Voorst (Eerdmans, 2000)

The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition by Eddy / Boyd (Baker Academic, 2007)

If you buy and READ these three books (along with any other books you want) THEN you are allowed to say “I have done my research.” But there’s much more you can read, including great Catholic books. These are general “Christian” books about Jesus. There is also Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Kreeft/Tacelli.

Before I forget, there are plenty of William Lane Craig debates for hours of MP3 listening. Hint: there isn’t a debate yet he has lost (detailed reviews from me hopefully coming soon).

Phil P