The Good News According to Calvin

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CHESTERTONRULES

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Most of you are going to hell and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Some of us are going to heaven and there’s nothing we can do about it.

Isn’t that good news?
 
Do you think outright mockery is a charitable and productive way of engaging those you disagree with?
 
a_mirror_dimly said:
Do you think outright mockery is a charitable and productive way of engaging those you disagree with?
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Perhaps not.

However, I think it is a very accurate description.

Sometimes some cold hard perspective is enlightening.

Do you think the post distorts Calvinism in any way?
 
I think any attempt to summarize someone else’s belief system in 30 words, especially when you are hostile to those beliefs, is bound to distort those beliefs.

I’m not an expert in Calvinism, so it’s not my place to take up the defense on their behalf, but it’s against everyone’s interest to starts petty arguments instead of insightful discussions. I don’t see how you could expect the latter to develop from your opening.
 
Anyway, in the interest of trying to get a productive discussion rolling anyway, let’s try to define a critical term to the discussion: free will.

What is it? On what basis can we say that we do or do not have free will?
 
a_mirror_dimly said:
I think any attempt to summarize someone else’s belief system in 30 words, especially when you are hostile to those beliefs, is bound to distort those beliefs.

I’m not an expert in Calvinism, so it’s not my place to take up the defense on their behalf, but it’s against everyone’s interest to starts petty arguments instead of insightful discussions. I don’t see how you could expect the latter to develop from your opening.
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If you will scan up you can see that reformed agrees with my assessment. If you will go to the link he provides you will see my description laid out in more detail, but the meaning is the same.🙂

I think Calvinism is a dangerous heresy that can lead to irrational confidence in salvation or to despair, which is why I tend to be less than charitable with it’s advocates.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I think Calvinism is a dangerous heresy that can lead to irrational confidence in salvation or to despair, which is why I tend to be less than charitable with it’s advocates.
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Well, it’s one (still not good) thing to lose control of yourself a bit in the middle of a heated argument, it’s quite another to go out and pick fights.

At any rate, I’m curious to hear your thoughts: what is free will?
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I think Calvinism is a dangerous heresy that can lead to irrational confidence in salvation or to despair, which is why I tend to be less than charitable with it’s advocates.
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IMO, you’re rationalizing your irrational behavior. :whistle:
 
a_mirror_dimly said:
Well, it’s one (still not good) thing to lose control of yourself a bit in the middle of a heated argument, it’s quite another to go out and pick fights.

At any rate, I’m curious to hear your thoughts: what is free will?
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Short answer:

The ability to make choices.
 
Well, it’s one (still not good) thing to lose control of yourself a bit in the middle of a heated argument, it’s quite another to go out and pick fights.
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How about staying under complete control while picking fights?

What is a forum, anyway?

Remember what Jesus did to the money changers in the temple.

In comparison, I feel as if I am being quite constrained.
 
Don’t take my word for it, read your Geneva Bible!
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Why, pray tell, would I want to “read” a bible that is untrue to the original texts and mutated to fit the agenda of someone who “created” a man-made theology???:eek:

Hmmmm, you think the OP is a mischaracterization??? If so and you are a “calvinist”…then I suspect you know not of what you speak nor do you actually know what you believe:

calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm
Total Depravity:
Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.
The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, “In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?” The answer is, “He cannot. Therefore God must predestine.”
Calvinism also maintains that because of our fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).
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Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).
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Clearly enough, without including the LIP, you have no choice in the matter either way. According to Calvin… you are a piece of useless human excrement wholly incapable of redemption, nothing you can do will ever change it, and he further prognosticates that God is a vicarious and whimful God who picks and chooses who will go to heaven and who won’t on a whim.

This little statement, taken much out of context is used as a “justification”…*Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21). Well, actually, its someones “personal interpretation” that wanders well away from the mark…

Sorry fellas, the OP was right. Bluntly he said it, but to the point. My view of it all:

Believe, don’t believe, sin, don’t sin, live in a cave, stand on your head…according to calvinism, it doesn’t matter what you do…you have just as much chance as the person who does the opposite…because nothing you do affects the outcome.*
 
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