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twinc
Guest
So then was the good/bad thief saved by faith alone or by faith and bad works - twinc
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EphelDuath
Guest
He was a thief, which makes him a sinner, as are we all. That doesn’t preclude him from also doing good works; it’s an assumption and a judgment to think that. Perhaps he was an otherwise just man that had to resolve to robbery in order to feed his children.
God bless.
God bless.
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DCNBILL
Guest
Was his public profession of faith not a good work?
Was his admonition of a sinner not a good work?
Seems like he was doing pretty good there at the end to me.
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FidesSpesCarita
Guest
Loaded question. He was saved by neither. He was saved solely by the Grace of God.
His public profession of faith was, in fact, a work. So that argument could go either way if taken out of context.
I assume that you are breaking this off from another thread that diverted into baptism?
FSC
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RobBahoura
Guest
Niether.You have to be saved by Strong faith and GOOD works.
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twinc
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good works according to who - the devil does plenty of good works according to his yardstick but cannot have a strong faith in Christ as Saviour - twinc
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Axion
Guest
Good works in doing the will of God.
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KShaft
Guest
More than all this, this was his baptism, communion, first confession, and confirmation all rolled into one moment.
He was undergoing a baptism of fire receiving the same punishments as Christ; he was in the physical presence of Christ during his one of his most important moments to us which was symbolized in the Eucharist and was actually happening here; he confessed what he did was wrong; and asked that Christ not forget him in the presence of his Father, confirming his belief and Christ himself acknowledging it.
St. T Aquinas said religious receive all the grace one would at the moment of baptism. This sounds at first like no big deal as we all receive such grace, but he was saying that they receive it immediately as purification from all sins are achieved. So the thief would be in a state such as this, confirmed by Christ himself.
He was undergoing a baptism of fire receiving the same punishments as Christ; he was in the physical presence of Christ during his one of his most important moments to us which was symbolized in the Eucharist and was actually happening here; he confessed what he did was wrong; and asked that Christ not forget him in the presence of his Father, confirming his belief and Christ himself acknowledging it.
St. T Aquinas said religious receive all the grace one would at the moment of baptism. This sounds at first like no big deal as we all receive such grace, but he was saying that they receive it immediately as purification from all sins are achieved. So the thief would be in a state such as this, confirmed by Christ himself.
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VetA
Guest
SOLA FIDES is heresy so if he was saved it was not by faith alone i can guarantee you that
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anjoh66
Guest
I would rather say that you are saved only by the Grace of God, that grace gives you faith and with faith follows good works.
Faith and good deeds must go hand in hand, cannot have one without the other, eventhough sometimes we do bad works as well but the faith draws us away from them thats why we got the sacrament of reconciliation.
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crazzeto
Guest
The good theif received a baptism by desire, which was the only baptism he could receive since his death was already underway. Normitivly he would have had to be actually baptised, then show his acceptance of Christ by picking up his cross [daily] and following him. As it turns out, in his case he picked up his [physical] cross once, and followed him when it mattered most.
This story teaches us how God’s Mercy trumps his justice, but one shouldn’t accept this as some license to beleive that the Sacraments which Christ established are some how unimportant, nor should we beleive that what we do has no consequence of we “accept Jesus Christ as our own personal Lord and Savior”.
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CGDouglas
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I agree with DCNBILL, his profession and his admonition is a form of good work.
As Axion said ‘Good works in doing the will of God.’ The Devil cannot produce a work that includes persuading the individual into repentance and acceptance of God. While conversion is a Grace, it is accepted by the human being, merging grace and work. We also must go by what God sees as Good, the Devil will see Good as something completely different, his Good is infact True Evil.
Besides, the Devil believes in Christ for Christ is the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity. It was by the same God that he was cast out of Heaven. Also they are rebuked by Christ, in Christ they are exorcised, and in Matthew we see the Devil tempting Christ into using his Angels to help him from hurting himself, by turning the rock into bread, and by offering Christ all the kingdoms of the Earth if Christ worshiped Satan.
God Bless.
Chris.
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Prophesy
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puppypatrol
Guest
We are saved by Grace through Faith. Faith without works is dead and we are justified (made holier and cleaner in God’s eyes) by our works.
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colmcille1
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Prophesy
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Tha Gaeilge agaibh? Tha Gàidhlig agam, ach ionnsaich mi Gàidhlig ann Canada.Go raibh maith agat a chara!
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PatriceA
Guest
I have been told that ultimately, only God will know what is written on our hearts at our moment of death and only He will decide if we are saved or not. That would lead to the conclusion that the good thief ultimately had a heart that truly was God’s and his past sins were forgiven, wouldn’t it?
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twinc
Guest
well said or not what matters is what is well said by the Church without any additions or subtractions - so "by grace through faith " we are saved - twincVery well said, puppypatrol!
Go raibh maith agat a chara!
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FidesSpesCarita
Guest
Come on, James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Oh, and dont forget the following
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God.
24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
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anjoh66
Guest
I really cant see any reason to debate this, we are saved by grace through faith and with that follows good works, that is exactly what the above quotation means.
If you have faith you will also have good works, but if you have no faith but still has good works it doesnt mean that you are saved.
And faith without good works will also not save you, except by the Grace of God.
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