The Gospel according to Judas?

[Pieman333272]

Personally, if I was a Christian, I would avoid using the statement “Saving Humanity by causing Jesus’ death on the Cross.” This as I said, suggests that before Judas was even born, he was already destined to betray Christ.

Do I believe He was damned? Not at all. If we go by the definition of God’s All Knowing power, then his fate was already predetermined. Does this mean God damned Him? I believe God blessed him, because Judas was the only one that possessed the ability to betray something so* pure*. Judas was and is the key to Christ’s sacrifice.

“was he damned, and what for” suggests that Judas existed prior to his existence. If you ask this, are you implying that Judas was somehow a damned angel? (or something along those lines)

OK, it looks like you twisted what I said. First, I do believe Judas was destined to betray Jesus. I said that I believe he had free will outside of that situation, and I also believe he was not damned, if he was damned, for that. Next, you seem to believe that if God is omniscient, then free will doesn’t exist. This is fallacious and I have worked through this with my idea which I call “false free will”. I will explain this if prompted. Judas had multiple paths to take following Jesus’ death and betrayal, and some of them, IMO, would have led to salvation over damnation. God, of course, knew each potential path but merely did not know which path he would take. He knew what other paths he could take as a result of each path, and could keep this up until each ended in death and an afterlife of some type, each path leading into one of varying types.

No, I was not implying Judas was/is a demon or fallen angel. I was implying that in Jesus’ story, there was bound to be a point where he was betrayed to death, and Judas was chosen to fulfill this task, via (possibly) temporary overriding of free will. So no, Judas’ soul was not eternal, or created prior to Jesus’ conception, but was selected, after its creation (and probably after Jesus began preaching) to betray him and set in motion the Resurrection and Redeeming.

 

[RichP]

I was implying that in Jesus’ story, there was bound to be a point where he was betrayed to death, and Judas was chosen to fulfill this task, via (possibly) temporary overriding of free will. So no, Judas’ soul was not eternal, or created prior to Jesus’ conception, but was selected, after its creation (and probably after Jesus began preaching) to betray him and set in motion the Resurrection and Redeeming.

This sounds like the God is a “puppet master” theory where we are merely puppets dancing on the strings that God is pulling on… Temporarily overriding one’s Free Will no longer sounds like Free Will…

Personally, if I was a Christian, I would avoid using the statement “Saving Humanity by causing Jesus’ death on the Cross.” This as I said, suggests that before Judas was even born, he was already destined to betray Christ.

Do I believe He was damned? Not at all. If we go by the definition of God’s All Knowing power, then his fate was already predetermined. Does this mean God damned Him? I believe God blessed him, because Judas was the only one that possessed the ability to betray something so* pure*. Judas was and is the key to Christ’s sacrifice.

“was he damned, and what for” suggests that Judas existed prior to his existence. If you ask this, are you implying that Judas was somehow a damned angel? (or something along those lines)

I believe Peter did not betray Christ, he **avoided **him. He was afraid of his own life, which shows true selfishness. Judas on the other hand, was needed. Would you repent if you betrayed Christ, the Son of God?

Pre-determination and pre-destination are sometimes confused and often misused. However, if you state that Judas was the only one that possessed the ability to betray Jesus and the key key to Christ’s sacrifice, you are completely negating Judas having Free WIll and, by extension, other people… Logically, if God created Judas for one purpose and Judas could do nothing about it, then Judas should not be condemmed of his actions. You are presuming that God would do something like depriving a person of his Free Will. You are presuming that no one else had the ability and the motive to betray Jesus. Why couldn’t there have been a Judas #2 or even a #3 if Judas decided not to do what he did?

No, the purpose was to show that there are links within religions. Have you ever asked why, for example, so many religions have a Great Flood story? or a Fall of Man story? Many conclusions have been similarly achieved.

I ask the same question to the Pope. Why must I interpret the gospel from a position started by Saint Peter, who denied Christ three times?

Regarding other religions, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that “The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .” (CCC 842) It goes on to say, "… Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.” (CCC 843)

One is free to interpret the gospels any way they want. That is why there are thousands of Protestant denominations… Each has their own interpretation. The only issue with self-interpretation is how does one know if they intrepret incorrectly?

 

[lemondiesel]

Pre-determination and pre-destination are sometimes confused and often misused. However, if you state that Judas was the only one that possessed the ability to betray Jesus and the key key to Christ’s sacrifice, you are completely negating Judas having Free WIll and, by extension, other people… Logically, if God created Judas for one purpose and Judas could do nothing about it, then Judas should not be condemmed of his actions. You are presuming that God would do something like depriving a person of his Free Will. You are presuming that no one else had the ability and the motive to betray Jesus. Why couldn’t there have been a Judas #2 or even a #3 if Judas decided not to do what he did?

God created Judas with the same Free Will as all. I believe God (Jesus Christ) presented Judas with the opportunity, and the choices he made through Life with
Free Will, affected his decision about Jesus’ request.

Even Aquinas tells us we must slay someone for the common good. In this case, preserving the Way.