The Gospel

[JRKH]

Yes, but the works do not save us. The faith which the works regenerate saves us.

And it is the free gift of Grace that we recieve from God that allows us to have faith.
Plus we note that Paul says if he had all the faith in the world but had not Love, it would count for nothing. Of the three, Faith, Hope, and Love, the Greatest is Love.

When we try to pull one item out, such as faith, or works, or grace, we wind up with a weak and lacking belief.
The Greatest commandments are built around Love. Love requires action as well as belief, faith and hope.

I posted this on another thread and will repeat it here:

How many times have you heard some variation on the, “The Catholic Church teaches a ‘Works’ Doctrine”.
The simple truth is that the Church teaches no such thing, and never has. The fact that, at various times, the Church, or some of it’s members, have emphasized the importance of works does not mean that we believe you can get to heaven by works without faith.

As to the subtle differences and so forth, I would suggest reading the catechism as a way of learning the Church’s teaching on the role of each item. I will attempt to give my understanding of how it is viewed.

Belief, Grace, Faith, Love and Works are interwoven pieces. They cannot be separated. They can only be placed in “order”.

1. We begin with Grace. Grace is the supernatural foundation. The “seed” that God plants in every soul that enables it to find it’s way back to God.
2. Then comes Belief. We must believe in something before anything else. If we do not believe in God, then the seed of Grace will not grow.
3. After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existance of banks, but do I have faith in them. Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
4. Then Comes Love. Jesus places Love as the Greatest and center of all of the Law and prophets. What we Love and covet is how we know “where our heart is”. If we Love God and wish to do His will, then we will Love our neighbor unselfishly and wish to act in ways that are pleasing to our love - who is God Himself.
5. Then comes Works. If we believe properly, that is we have a trusting belief, then works will necessarily follow. If works do not follow then there is a problem with one of the above.

I hope some of this helps you.

Peace
James

 

[JonNC]

Yes, but the works do not save us. The faith which the works regenerate saves us.

Yes, we are saved by Grace alone through faith in Christ. And if we have true faith, a saving faith, we will follow His commands, and do His good works. The Book of Concord says about works:

1. We believe, teach, and confess also that all men, but those especially who are born again and renewed by the Holy Ghost, are bound to do good works.

9] 4. In this sense the words necessary, shall, and must are employed correctly and in a Christian manner also with respect to the regenerate, and in no way are contrary to the form of sound words and speech.

10] 5. Nevertheless, by the words mentioned, necessitas, necessarium, necessity and necessary, if they be employed concerning the regenerate, not coercion, but only due obedience is to be understood, which the truly believing, so far as they are regenerate, render not from coercion or the driving of the Law, but from a voluntary spirit; because they are no more under the Law, but under grace, Rom. 6:14; 7:6; 8:14.

11] 6. Accordingly, we also believe, teach, and confess that when it is said: The regenerate do good works from a free spirit, **this is not to be understood as though it is at the option of the regenerate man to do or to forbear doing good when he wishes, and that he can nevertheless retain faith if he intentionally perseveres in sins. **

There is no choice but to do good works if we are to retain, and not reject, our faith.
Jon

 

[TristanCross]

Agreed, Jon.

JRKH, Thank you for explaining with such great love. I wish the other man I spoke to would have been a little less mind and a bit more heart. May God’s Spirit continue to dwell in you.

 

[DD2007]

2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV
21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

John 3:16-18 ESV
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Romans 5:1-11 ESV
5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Ordo Salutis:

1. election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. Link: monergism.com/directory/link_category/Ordo-Salutis/

Romans 8:29-30 ESV
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 

[raumzeitmc2]

Agreed, Jon.

JRKH, Thank you for explaining with such great love. I wish the other man I spoke to would have been a little less mind and a bit more heart. May God’s Spirit continue to dwell in you.

TristanCross wrote:

Keep the commandments, huh? This is interesting, because you sound like a Judaizer. Paul rebuked the Judaizers greatly in the Book of Galatians. Also, you posted the verse out of context to support your beliefs.

Wow, can’t say I see a lot of heart in those comments!

As for me, I’m all heart! LOL!

And now, another article I’d like to recommend (with all my heart!).

What is the Gospel? by James Akin.

God bless.

---

“For now our salvation lies in hope, not yet in realty, for we do not now hold what has been promised and are hoping that it will come. But, “he is faithful who has promised.” He does not deceive you. Only, you, do not faint, but wait for the promise. For truth does not know how to deceive. You, do not be a liar so as to profess one thing, to do another. You, keep the faith, and he keeps the promise. But if you do not keep the faith, you, not he who promised, have cheated yourself.”

St. Augustine, Tractate 4:2, On the Gospel of John.

Tractates on the Gospel of John 112-24: Tractates on the First Epistle of John (Fathers of the Church), Catholic University of America Press (1995), ISBN 081320092X 978-0813200927, p. 174.

books.google.com/books?id=SXqxJnS2mnAC&pg=PA174&dq=%22salvation+lies+in+hope+not+yet+in+reality%22&lr=#PPA173,M1

 

[JRKH]

2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV
21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

John 3:16-18 ESV
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Romans 5:1-11 ESV
5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Ordo Salutis:

**1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call **4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. Link: monergism.com/directory/link_category/Ordo-Salutis/

Romans 8:29-30 ESV
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

I’m not sure what you are trying to get at in this post, but I bolded the short section above because this gets into the “non-useful” areas of theology. Talk of predestination may be interesting in an academic sense, but has no use or bearing where the rubber meets the road. By that I mean even if God “Predestines”, or “Elects” certain persons beforehand, we cannot know who those persons are, or even if we are part of the elect or not.
Thus it is that we, as Christians, can only strive to Love God and our neighbor to the best of our ability - To “Work out our Salvation with fear and Trembling”, to "Run the Good race and “Fight the good fight”, relying ultimately on the Love and Mercy of God who is our Father, to guide us home with Him in heaven.

Peace
James

 

[Bill_Pick]

If someone asked you “what is the gospel?” What would you say?

Note the disclaimer:

Galatians 1:8 ESV
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

Off the top of my head I say John 1:1

 

[2nd_Adam]

If someone asked you “what is the gospel?” What would you say?

Note the disclaimer:

Galatians 1:8 ESV
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

The gospel is the good news of God about His Son that we are called to proclaim to the entire world. It can be summarized in this one verse:

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Cor 5:21

 

[Jon_Hus]

John :28-29
28Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Plain and simple.

 

[4EverHis]

Yes, but the works do not save us. The faith which the works regenerate saves us.

faith can’t save us… only grace can. This grace works through both faith and works done out of love for God.

 

[4EverHis]

The Gospel:

God became Man, was conceived by the Holy Spirit, was born of the Virgin Mary… died for our salvation on the Cross, and rose again on the third day. Now we can have eternal life through Him.

 

[2nd_Adam]

faith can’t save us… only grace can. This grace works through both faith and works done out of love for God.

Can you agree with this statement? We are saved by grace alone through the instrument of faith on the basis of the merit of Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The Gospel:

God became Man, was conceived by the Holy Spirit, was born of the Virgin Mary… died for our salvation on the Cross, and rose again on the third day. Now we can have eternal life through Him.

You’re statement reminds me of 1 Cor 15…

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.