'The Great Apostasy'

[crazyaboutJesus]

I am fairly new to these forums and so this is my first thread, so please bear with me.
I am a Christian, but I have been reading the Book of Mormon, (very slowly I might add too ), however it really saddened me to read 1 Nephi 13, where it speaks about an abominable church run by the devil, and the simple truths of the writings of the apostles have been lost.
I know that at times some churches are somewhat corrupt and appear hypocritical and whatnot, but I didn’t think that the truth of the Bible had been lost. If such a thing did happen, why would God allow his word to be deformed?
As I mentioned i am quite new to all of this and want people’s opinions.

 

[Able]

I am fairly new to these forums and so this is my first thread, so please bear with me.
I am a Christian, but I have been reading the Book of Mormon, (very slowly I might add too ), however it really saddened me to read 1 Nephi 13, where it speaks about an abominable church run by the devil, and the simple truths of the writings of the apostles have been lost.
I know that at times some churches are somewhat corrupt and appear hypocritical and whatnot, but I didn’t think that the truth of the Bible had been lost. If such a thing did happen, why would God allow his word to be deformed?
As I mentioned i am quite new to all of this and want people’s opinions.

Mormons say they have a book of Mormon, my in laws are Mormon, they believe Jesus came from another planet…

Able

P.S. If you can live with that then go ahead and destroy your chance for heaven, you need Jesus, the one that came from His Father

 

[odopa]

Interested in Jesus?
Then read what the bible says. If you are fascinated with the Mormons then seek answers from them. I dont think you will find the answer to your question from anyone but the mormons.

As your name suggests, you must love Jesus and you are seeking to know him. Go on your knees and pray to him to enlighten you and point you in the right direction.

God bless you.
odopa

 

[chessmane4e5]

I am fairly new to these forums and so this is my first thread, so please bear with me.
I am a Christian, but I have been reading the Book of Mormon, (very slowly I might add too ), however it really saddened me to read 1 Nephi 13, where it speaks about an abominable church run by the devil, and the simple truths of the writings of the apostles have been lost.
I know that at times some churches are somewhat corrupt and appear hypocritical and whatnot, but I didn’t think that the truth of the Bible had been lost. If such a thing did happen, why would God allow his word to be deformed?
As I mentioned i am quite new to all of this and want people’s opinions.

What concerns me is that Mormonism was founded by Joesph Smith around 1830 A.D.

Now while I understand that people can claim that the Church Jesus founded has lost its way, I find it harder to believe that an Angel appeared to Joseph Smith and revealed the book of Mormon which was written on Gold plates in Egyptian, and after he translated them the Angel took them.

I choose to believe that the Catholic Church is the one Church that Jesus founded upon Peter the Rock, that Jesus gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom and that Jesus told Peter the Gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church. Matt 16:13-19

I agree with you that it seems highly unlikely that God would let His Word to be deformed and in fact I believe it is impossible given what Jesus said about the Gates of Hell not prevailing. I am skeptical to believe one man 1800 years after Christ died, and trust the 12 Apostles whom Jesus personally instructed.

My advice. Do a little research and pray a lot.

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9701drag.asp

 

[Marie5890]

The idea of a great apostasy certainly is/was a big selling point when it comes to Mormonism.

Claim all other forms of Christianity are corrupt and fallen away. Then claim that God came to you to in order to re-establish it.

Mormons believe (whether doctrinally or culturally) that Joseph Smith has done more for the salvation of the world save Jesus alone.

Kinda of tosses the original Apostles (including Paul) aside.

Sorry. Joseph Smith’s marrying of 14 year old girls, and marrying other men’s wives while they were on missions tell me he was a false prophet and not to be believed.

“Ye shall know them by their fruits”.

Joseph Smith’s fruits were kind of rotten if you take the time to do some valid and objective research.

To put it mildly, when you do the valid and objective research, (be thorough) you will find that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were horn dogs. Joseph Smith would be seen as a pedophile in our day and age.

 

[twopekinguys]

I am fairly new to these forums and so this is my first thread, so please bear with me.
I am a Christian, but I have been reading the Book of Mormon, (very slowly I might add too ), however it really saddened me to read 1 Nephi 13, where it speaks about an abominable church run by the devil, and the simple truths of the writings of the apostles have been lost.
I know that at times some churches are somewhat corrupt and appear hypocritical and whatnot, but I didn’t think that the truth of the Bible had been lost. If such a thing did happen, why would God allow his word to be deformed?
As I mentioned i am quite new to all of this and want people’s opinions.

I am not trying to sound harsh here, but I am a little concerned with something, and maybe you could answer it.

You show your religious affiliation is Baptist, and yet you are on a Catholic forum, making your first post, and it is about mormonism.

I’m sorry, but maybe i am not seeing the logic in this. Is there a reason you haven’t gone to a mormon discussion board?

I hope you get the answers you are looking for, I’m just not sure this is the right place for you to find them.

 

[SteveVH]

I am fairly new to these forums and so this is my first thread, so please bear with me.
I am a Christian, but I have been reading the Book of Mormon, (very slowly I might add too ), however it really saddened me to read 1 Nephi 13, where it speaks about an abominable church run by the devil, and the simple truths of the writings of the apostles have been lost.
I know that at times some churches are somewhat corrupt and appear hypocritical and whatnot, but I didn’t think that the truth of the Bible had been lost. If such a thing did happen, why would God allow his word to be deformed?
As I mentioned i am quite new to all of this and want people’s opinions.

There is a thread very similar to this called “Mormon Apostasy and Restoration” which I started several months ago. I think a lot of your questions will be answered there. It gets a little bizarre, and more so the deeper you look into it. I’ve concluded that Joseph Smith was a complete fraud with a burning desire to be a god. I have yet to receive any evidence of an apostasy and the early Church writings contain no Mormon doctrines whatsoever. What they call a restoration is nothing more than painting clown faces over a masterpiece and claiming it to be the original.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Great Apostasy=Protestant Reformation
Abominable Church run by the Devil=Certainly the Mormons own church qualifies for this (not saying all Mormons are evil, but their whole religion is based on lies and it is a faux religion that worships a faux God)

I am fairly new to these forums and so this is my first thread, so please bear with me.
I am a Christian, but I have been reading the Book of Mormon, (very slowly I might add too ), however it really saddened me to read 1 Nephi 13, where it speaks about an abominable church run by the devil, and the simple truths of the writings of the apostles have been lost.
I know that at times some churches are somewhat corrupt and appear hypocritical and whatnot, but I didn’t think that the truth of the Bible had been lost. If such a thing did happen, why would God allow his word to be deformed?
As I mentioned i am quite new to all of this and want people’s opinions.

 

[crazyaboutJesus]

Thanks for your opinions everyone

And yes twopekinguys- it is illogical, however i have been going through some of the threads on this particular forum site, and found a range of opinions concerning mormonism, and i suppose i didnt think that there would be any issues concerning me being a baptist.

My reason for researching about mormonism is that i have a friend who happens to be mormon, and i wanted to learn the truth about it, not the sugarcoated version i seem to be fed each time the topic comes up.

Thanks again for the advice everyone

God Bless!

 

[chessmane4e5]

Thanks for your opinions everyone

And yes twopekinguys- it is illogical, however i have been going through some of the threads on this particular forum site, and found a range of opinions concerning mormonism, and i suppose i didnt think that there would be any issues concerning me being a baptist.

My reason for researching about mormonism is that i have a friend who happens to be mormon, and i wanted to learn the truth about it, not the sugarcoated version i seem to be fed each time the topic comes up.

Thanks again for the advice everyone

God Bless!

Then the best thing you can do for your friend is to learn more about how to convince him/her that Mormonism is not the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ttnacath]

The idea of a great apostasy certainly is/was a big selling point when it comes to Mormonism.

Claim all other forms of Christianity are corrupt and fallen away. Then claim that God came to you to in order to re-establish it.

Mormons believe (whether doctrinally or culturally) that Joseph Smith has done more for the salvation of the world save Jesus alone.

Kinda of tosses the original Apostles (including Paul) aside.

Sorry. Joseph Smith’s marrying of 14 year old girls, and marrying other men’s wives while they were on missions tell me he was a false prophet and not to be believed.

“Ye shall know them by their fruits”.

Joseph Smith’s fruits were kind of rotten if you take the time to do some valid and objective research.

To put it mildly, when you do the valid and objective research, (be thorough) you will find that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were horn dogs. Joseph Smith would be seen as a pedophile in our day and age.

If you undertstood why plural marriage existed during Old Testament times (so what is your issue with what happened then) and Catholicism has no revelation so how would understand revelation!!!

I could attack the pope — I am not going down that road.

 

[TheosisM]

If you undertstood why plural marriage existed during Old Testament times (so what is your issue with what happened then) and Catholicism has no revelation so how would understand revelation!!!

I could attack the pope — I am not going down that road.

Catholicism does have revelation. It just believes in it differently than Mormons. And even if it did not, just because someone doesn’t “have” something does not mean that they cannot understand it.

This topic has been done recently. There is no need to go over it again so soon (or one could just add to the recent threads on the subject):

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=397866
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=405970

 

[Joshua27]

I am fairly new to these forums and so this is my first thread, so please bear with me.
I am a Christian, but I have been reading the Book of Mormon, (very slowly I might add too ), however it really saddened me to read 1 Nephi 13, where it speaks about an abominable church run by the devil, and the simple truths of the writings of the apostles have been lost.
I know that at times some churches are somewhat corrupt and appear hypocritical and whatnot, but I didn’t think that the truth of the Bible had been lost. If such a thing did happen, why would God allow his word to be deformed?
As I mentioned i am quite new to all of this and want people’s opinions.

Well I can’t speak for mormans or their book, but there are errors/corruptions in the bible.

Now before I give an example, I want to preface that the bible (the book of sacred books Christians use as reference) is not completely the Word of God, but sometimes the word of Paul, the word of an apostle, the word of Peter, the word of prophets, and especially the Word of Messiah. But “In the beginning was the Word [not the bible], and the Word [not the bible] was with God, and the Word [not the bible] was God…And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us [so the Word is the Messiah, not the bible].” The Word of God can never be corrupted, however the bible can and has been.

One stark corruption is the letter “J” (and the sound “J” makes), which is only 600-800 years old (developed in Italy ). The holy men - and even the Messiah we reference - were Israelites and did not possess the names we’ve given to them. Cities like Jerusalem were not named “Jerusalem”. Ancient leaders like Joshua were not named “Joshua”. So “Jesus” is not the Messiah’s name.

 

[SteveVH]

If you undertstood why plural marriage existed during Old Testament times (so what is your issue with what happened then) and Catholicism has no revelation so how would understand revelation!!!

I could attack the pope — I am not going down that road.

The book of Deuteronomy tells us to stone false prophets (“so what is your issue with what happened then”). Jesus, the fullfillment of the Old Testament, told us that marriage was between one man and one woman. Moses allowed divorce (because of the hardness of their hearts) but Jesus put an end to it.

Catholicism has no revelation? It has the revelation of God Himself as found in the scriptures which it gave to the world. Jesus is God’s final revelation, His only word, we do not need nor are we waiting for any other. The Catholic Church has guarded this deposit of faith for 2000 years. The fact that an organization claims “new” revelation only exposes their lack of understanding of Who Jesus is.

 

[TheosisM]

Well I can’t speak for mormans or their book, but there are errors/corruptions in the bible.

Now before I give an example, I want to preface that the bible (the book of sacred books Christians use as reference) is not completely the Word of God, but sometimes the word of Paul, the word of an apostle, the word of Peter, the word of prophets, and especially the Word of Messiah. But “In the beginning was the Word [not the bible], and the Word [not the bible] was with God, and the Word [not the bible] was God…And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us [so the Word is the Messiah, not the bible].” The Word of God can never be corrupted, however the bible can and has been.

It is standard Christian belief that the “Word” referred to in John 1:1 is Jesus/God the Son.

One stark corruption is the letter “J” (and the sound “J” makes), which is only 600-800 years old (developed in Italy ). The holy men - and even the Messiah we reference - were Israelites and did not possess the names we’ve given to them. Cities like Jerusalem were not named “Jerusalem”. Ancient leaders like Joshua were not names “Joshua”. So “Jesus” is not the Messiah’s name.

Uh what? I don’t think that anyone claims that the English name for Jesus was what He was called anciently. This argument is a straw man, because no one claims that the English names for places and people in the Bible were what they were called anciently. These are translations and transliterations.

 

[choy]

is mormonism the first to float the idea of the great apostasy?

i just want to know who originated this idea

 

[Joshua27]

Uh what? I don’t think that anyone claims that the English name for Jesus was what He was called anciently. This argument is a straw man, because no one claims that the English names for places and people in the Bible were what they were called anciently. These are translations and transliterations.

It’s not about being “ancient”, RheosisX, because we also believe that the Messiah is alive today. I’m glad you specifically know about translations and transliterations, but what do people claim his name to be - as truth - today? You said it yourself:

It is standard Christian belief that the “Word” referred to in John 1:1 is Jesus/God the Son.

It is standard Christian belief that the “Word” referred to in John1:1 is [who?]/God the Son?

[Revelation 3:8]

I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.

Should proper names ever be translated or transliterated? Do we have a right to call someone - anyone - by a name other than their name, for our convenience? The point was ‘this is a corruption of the bible that we accept’. I answered the thread question.

 

[SteveVH]

is mormonism the first to float the idea of the great apostasy?

i just want to know who originated this idea

As far as a total loss of truth, yes I believe the Mormons are the first, however if you think about Protestantism is general, they obviously believe in some apostasy (loss of truth) or I presume they would be Catholic.

 

[chessmane4e5]

It is standard Christian belief that the “Word” referred to in John1:1 is [who?]/God the Son?

Should proper names ever be translated or transliterated? Do we have a right to call someone - anyone - by a name other than their name, for our convenience? The point was ‘this is a corruption of the bible that we accept’. I answered the thread question.

Do you know the True name then? Are you able to spell it? Or can you use phonetics to tell us how to pronounce it?

 

[aquabatix]

Saying that His name is Jesus in english is not a corruption, it is simply a translation. In Hebrew and Aramaic it would be Yeshua (Ye-sh-oo-ah) , and in Koine Greek (in which the Gospels were written) it is Iesous (Ee-aye-soos). Sorry, my phone does not have the correct fonts or I would put those in the actual characters for you as well. But at any rate, the name is not a corruption, just a translation. I am not saying the Bible is free from error, especially gramatical, but it is inspired by the Holy Spirit. It wasn’t faxed from God to us cover to cover.