'The Great Apostasy'

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Catholic20064 said:
I’m not so sure. Read it again:

The Beast was able to overcome the saints and he had power over every tribe, people, tongue, and nation. That could easily be interpreted as a complete apostasy if the Beast was able to overcome everyone. I’m not sure that would be a correct interpretation, but it certainly seems plausible.
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Yes, the Roman Empire worked very hard at destroying the early church. It is obvious it did not succeed.
 
ParkerD said:
SteveVH,
I certainly agree that God intends for there to be “an holy nation” that crosses national boundaries and unites people everywhere on the earth. I hope that happens in our lifetime. I assure you that it will not be under the banner you suggested, or the earth would already be in the Millenium having had 2,000 years to get there under the leadership of Christ and the Holy Spirit as you suggested, with the fruits of the gospel fully present in every Catholic’s life on earth, and poverty completely done away with among the people of that “nation” you perceive to exist. It will be a wider coverage than that, when He comes and reigns.

Jesus was speaking to the Jews, and knew of course exactly what they were expecting regarding a “nation”, and it had to do with them–a political body as well as a religious body of supposedly “covenant people.” I agree, however, that they were to have been a “kingdom of priests” if they had lived by the covenant God intended them to have made through Moses.
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ParkerD, you are correct as to what the Jews were expecting, but their expectations were erroneous. They didn’t expect their “King” to be born into poverty and they certainly didn’t expect Him to be a carpenter from Nazareth either. They expected a King which would defeat their enemies on the battle ground and liberate Israel. In other words, God did not bend to, nor is He subject to the expectations of the Jews. God’s covenant with Moses covered the Jewish Nation. The New Covenant was to be everlasting and universal, including the gentiles. They were to teach “all nations” (which by its very nature would require Apostolic succession in order to accomplish that command).

You seem to believe that God is dependent upon man in order to accomplish His plan of salvation. He is not. It is why He is the head of the Church and not man. We will always fall short, Catholics as well as Mormons. This had nothing to do with the covenant God made with Moses. It is the “New Covenant” by which we are made a “holy nation” and extends to all who wish to enter into this covenant. It is no longer limited to a family, a tribe, a race or a political or geographic “nation”. The fact that some or many choose not to enter into the “New Covenant” does not void the covenant for those that do.
 
SteveVH said:
ParkerD, you are correct as to what the Jews were expecting, but their expectations were erroneous. They didn’t expect their “King” to be born into poverty and they certainly didn’t expect Him to be a carpenter from Nazareth either. They expected a King which would defeat their enemies on the battle ground and liberate Israel. In other words, God did not bend to, nor is He subject to the expectations of the Jews. God’s covenant with Moses covered the Jewish Nation. The New Covenant was to be everlasting and universal, including the gentiles. They were to teach “all nations” (which by its very nature would require Apostolic succession in order to accomplish that command).

You seem to believe that God is dependent upon man in order to accomplish His plan of salvation. He is not. It is why He is the head of the Church and not man. We will always fall short, Catholics as well as Mormons. This had nothing to do with the covenant God made with Moses. It is the “New Covenant” by which we are made a “holy nation” and extends to all who wish to enter into this covenant. It is no longer limited to a family, a tribe, a race or a political or geographic “nation”. The fact that some or many choose not to enter into the “New Covenant” does not void the covenant for those that do.
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The hardest thing a Jew of the time had accepting is that Jesus was crucified.
 
ParkerD- Maybe this is the thread to find you!
I had written before about the The Great Apostasy as detailed in the pamplet The Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It clearly states that “The Apostles were killed, and priesthood authority - including the keys to direct and receive revelation for the Church - was taken from the earth.” This is not gradual. Also, the missionaries who came to our home (at least 8 times) explained that the Great Apostasy occurred as soon as the last apostle died and that since then there has not been a true church on earth, until Joseph Smith.

On page 8, the pamphlet goes on to say that “inspired people, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, recognized that practices and doctrines had been changed or lost. They tried to reform the churches TO WHICH THEY BELONGED.”

To which church did Martin Luther belong?
 
Dr Scott Hahn said when he read the last passages of Revelations, he saw the Mass.
 
Many books have explored the liturgical themes of Revelation, like The Apocalypse: The Perennial Revelation of Jesus Christ by Eugenio Corsini.
 
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