The Great Exchange

[Reformed]

I do not unite with them in any ecclesiastical sense. Because Rome herself teaches much that is wrong that does not mean I am willing to send them into Hell. Christ’s atoning work was sufficient to redeem anyone who places their faith in Him from any error in doctrine. I do not make holding to correct doctrine to be what saves us. Holding to the correct Savior is what saves us.

Roman Catholics (or Eastern Orthodox, for that matter) are not a mission field. I will discuss, debate, and argue against their teaching to try and convince them of biblical truth, but I’m not arrogant enough to assume that they are flaming heretics who must be converted or burn for eternity.

I consider any Christian, whether Roman, Lutheran, Arminian, or Calvinist to be a brother and sister in Christ. The true church is not defined by denomination or religious background. It is defined by faith in Christ. I see no reason to doubt the Catholic’s faith in Christ unless they give me a VERY good reason to do so. I do not unite with Rome because of her errors on the papacy, justification, the intercession of the saints, et al…but while I do not unite with her on the basis of pure doctrine I must, out of Christian love, unite with them in confessing one God, one Christ, one Spirit, one baptism, and one resurrection.

In the same sense that I divide from Rome, I divide from Geneva. I do not consider those who deny the Body and Blood of my Savior in the holy eucharist to be a small matter. I do not consider those who deny the saving work of baptism to be a small matter. I do not consider that those who affirm that God decrees who will go to Hell to be an issue worth uniting with them over. I think it pure folly to try and turn Luther into some crypto-Calvinist. Luther was less ecumenical than I am. He considered faithful Catholics to be Christians. He did NOT afford the same courtesy to Zwingli, Bucer, and the other early Reformed theologians. You really need to think twice about identifying Luther as someone who held to what you hold to.

Hoc est Corpus Meum!

I can understand your position, but don’t agree with your conclusions. The gospel is in a different category than other issues. But you unintentionally misrepresented your views to say that you agree with the Cambridge Declaration and the Alliance of Confession Evangelicals. Your position does not line-up with the historic Protetstant Confessions, because the statements about the Roman Catholic Church is clear for all to understand. I will say that you are in the Lutheran camp which signed The Joint Declaration on Justification. I guess I should have discerned your views by your screen name.

The first and chief article is this: Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, died for our sins and was raised again for our justification (Romans 3:24-25). He alone is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29), and God has laid on Him the iniquity of us all (Isaiah 53:6). All have sinned and are justified freely, without their own works and merits, by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, in His blood (Romans 3:23-25). This is necessary to believe. This cannot be otherwise acquired or grasped by any work, law or merit. Therefore, it is clear and certain that this faith alone justifies us … Nothing of this article can be yielded or surrendered, even though heaven and earth and everything else falls (Mark 13:31). - Martin Luther

http://www.indiantravelinfo.com/gifs/wild-boar.jpg http://www.reformationtheology.com/assets/95thesis.jpg

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It seems you want to be Catholic but the essential of justification by faith alone would make that impossible.

You have, repeatedly, brought up the subject of ‘faith alone’. I assume this is to keep a wedge between Catholics and Protestants.

In one thread, where ‘faith alone’ was the topic of the thread I believe that you started, several of us entered into a discussion of the real differences being semantic or misconceptions. There was an apparent majority of agreement of the particpants in that discussion. I remember you came in later and immediately threw other issues into the conversation which appeared to keep the division alive.

I would like to summarize my participation in that thread.

Faith and Grace are gifts from God. Grace is given through our active participation of our faith. I mean, can one who merely has faith and does not act on it, or use it in other words, receive God’s graces?

I explained in the other thread that ‘works’ is our response to God’s gifts and love. In other words, attending Church on the Sabbath is a form of works. Prayer is a form of works. Confessing our sins with a repentant heart is a form of works. Loving one another as He loved us is a form of works. Loving one another as He loved us moves us to be charitable, which is another form of works.

I will restate, since you seem to have some confusion on the matter, that Catholics do not believe one can ‘work’ their way into heaven. Our salvation comes from our faith in Christ.

Here’s the candid questions. Do you see Orthodox Roman Catholics to be your brother and sisters in Christ or the mission field?

Do you see Reformed Christians to be your brother and sisters in Christ or the mission field?

Maybe, you should ask yourself the same ‘candid’ questions as you pose.

I’ve seen you ‘avoid’ discussions and in your exit from them you’ve stated TriuneUnity, was ‘like minded’ with you. It has appearances that you do not accept Catholic Christians as Christians and that keeping a divide between us all is somehow beneficial.

I’ve explained to you before that we are all joined through our faith in Christ. This is the reason Catholics consider Protestants our separated brethren. Some Protestants are not as separated as others as evident in TriuneUnity’s post demonstrates. I have taken the liberty of bolding parts of his post, below, for emphasis.

I do not unite with them in any ecclesiastical sense. Because Rome herself teaches much that is wrong that does not mean I am willing to send them into Hell. Christ’s atoning work was sufficient to redeem anyone who places their faith in Him from any error in doctrine. I do not make holding to correct doctrine to be what saves us. Holding to the correct Savior is what saves us.

Roman Catholics (or Eastern Orthodox, for that matter) are not a mission field. I will discuss, debate, and argue against their teaching to try and convince them of biblical truth, but I’m not arrogant enough to assume that they are flaming heretics who must be converted or burn for eternity.

I consider any Christian, whether Roman, Lutheran, Arminian, or Calvinist to be a brother and sister in Christ. The true church is not defined by denomination or religious background. It is defined by faith in Christ. I see no reason to doubt the Catholic’s faith in Christ unless they give me a VERY good reason to do so. I do not unite with Rome because of her errors on the papacy, justification, the intercession of the saints, et al…but while I do not unite with her on the basis of pure doctrine I must, out of Christian love, unite with them in confessing one God, one Christ, one Spirit, one baptism, and one resurrection.

In the same sense that I divide from Rome, I divide from Geneva. I do not consider those who deny the Body and Blood of my Savior in the holy eucharist to be a small matter. I do not consider those who deny the saving work of baptism to be a small matter. I do not consider that those who affirm that God decrees who will go to Hell to be an issue worth uniting with them over. I think it pure folly to try and turn Luther into some crypto-Calvinist. Luther was less ecumenical than I am. He considered faithful Catholics to be Christians. He did NOT afford the same courtesy to Zwingli, Bucer, and the other early Reformed theologians. You really need to think twice about identifying Luther as someone who held to what you hold to.

Hoc est Corpus Meum!

As I pointed out in my posts to you on your faith thread, we should seek common ground and work out from there. It seems more beneficial to me.

You on the other hand seem to want to work from our differences towards what we have in common.

The problem of working from differences towards what we have in common seems to be the discussions stagnate and do not allow us to come closer together.

Which way would you say would bring us closer to speaking as one, with the same mind and judgement?

As TriuneUnity as stated from a Lutheran perspective, it is also the Catholic hope that through God’s mercy and love all will receive salvation through our faith. We do not presume anyone to be condemned.

Does this mean all Catholics or Lutherans feel the same way as stated in the above paragraph? Probably not, but that is on each of us in our own search to seek God. I mention this because of the times you’ve been in discussions with Catholics and pointed out that you saw another Catholic state something different, as if was doctrinally wrong on one side or the other. Individual Catholics, or Lutherans, do not make Church doctrine, as I assume it is in your Church.

To point out that two from the same Church did not agree on a certain point appears to be more you trying to convince yourself that you’ve made the right decision, from another perspective.

 

[Reformed]

You have, repeatedly, brought up the subject of ‘faith alone’. I assume this is to keep a wedge between Catholics and Protestants.

In one thread, where ‘faith alone’ was the topic of the thread I believe that you started, several of us entered into a discussion of the real differences being semantic or misconceptions. There was an apparent majority of agreement of the particpants in that discussion. I remember you came in later and immediately threw other issues into the conversation which appeared to keep the division alive.

I would like to summarize my participation in that thread.

Faith and Grace are gifts from God. Grace is given through our active participation of our faith. I mean, can one who merely has faith and does not act on it, or use it in other words, receive God’s graces?

I explained in the other thread that ‘works’ is our response to God’s gifts and love. In other words, attending Church on the Sabbath is a form of works. Prayer is a form of works. Confessing our sins with a repentant heart is a form of works. Loving one another as He loved us is a form of works. Loving one another as He loved us moves us to be charitable, which is another form of works.

I will restate, since you seem to have some confusion on the matter, that Catholics do not believe one can ‘work’ their way into heaven. Our salvation comes from our faith in Christ.

Maybe, you should ask yourself the same ‘candid’ questions as you pose.

I’ve seen you ‘avoid’ discussions and in your exit from them you’ve stated TriuneUnity, was ‘like minded’ with you. It has appearances that you do not accept Catholic Christians as Christians and that keeping a divide between us all is somehow beneficial.

I’ve explained to you before that we are all joined through our faith in Christ. This is the reason Catholics consider Protestants our separated brethren. Some Protestants are not as separated as others as evident in TriuneUnity’s post demonstrates. I have taken the liberty of bolding parts of his post, below, for emphasis.

As I pointed out in my posts to you on your faith thread, we should seek common ground and work out from there. It seems more beneficial to me.

You on the other hand seem to want to work from our differences towards what we have in common.

The problem of working from differences towards what we have in common seems to be the discussions stagnate and do not allow us to come closer together.

Which way would you say would bring us closer to speaking as one, with the same mind and judgement?

As TriuneUnity as stated from a Lutheran perspective, it is also the Catholic hope that through God’s mercy and love all will receive salvation through our faith. We do not presume anyone to be condemned.

Does this mean all Catholics or Lutherans feel the same way as stated in the above paragraph? Probably not, but that is on each of us in our own search to seek God. I mention this because of the times you’ve been in discussions with Catholics and pointed out that you saw another Catholic state something different, as if was doctrinally wrong on one side or the other. Individual Catholics, or Lutherans, do not make Church doctrine, as I assume it is in your Church.

To point out that two from the same Church did not agree on a certain point appears to be more you trying to convince yourself that you’ve made the right decision, from another perspective.

Prodigal,

I can’t tell if you are speaking to TriuneUnity or me. I think the best way to understand my position is through the Cambridge Declaration, Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, and the 5 solas of the Protestant Reformation. I have tried to share candidly, and with an attempt to share with gentleness and respect. However, we all fall short with the command to share with gentleness and respect because of our deep convictions and the remaining sin in all of us. I know in part, but I do not believe that the official Roman Catholic proclamation of the gospel is the same gospel proclaimed by the Apostle Paul (Gal 1). It is the historic Protestant position and understanding. If we do share the same gospel that saves sinners, then the Protestant Reformation was a work of the devil. I continue to participate because the love of Christ compels me to share the truth with all who will listen.

Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Christian Unity around the gospel: :grouphug:

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If you notice, the post you responded too, was addressing you first and your comments. Do you not remember the faith alone thread you started? Do you not remember leaving a discussion on sola scriptura and accusing us of ‘rigging’ a discussion? I really didn’t understand that remark. How does one ‘rig’ a conversation?

I think the best way to understand my position is through the Cambridge Declaration, Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, and the 5 solas of the Protestant Reformation.

Yet you reject writings by early Church fathers. Early Church fathers who practiced Christianity under the Apostles themselves, who did not practice the 5 solas?

It is the historic Protestant position and understanding.

Again, if you wanted the historic position and understanding, we have writings from the early Church fathers, some of whom practiced Christianity under the Apostles themselves.

If we do share the same gospel that saves sinners, then the Protestant Reformation was a work of the devil.

If this was possible, I’m not saying it was definate, how do we know which Church of the reformation or those who reformed from the reformation is correct? It seems there is a ‘watering down’ of the Gospel message and teaching of Christ with each new denomination that starts up. This has the appearances of finding a belief, doctrine, that fits one’s individual lifestyle. Is this being obedient to God’s will?

I continue to participate because the love of Christ compels me to share the truth with all who will listen.

Again, who determines the real truth with so many denominations in the world? Also, you say ‘share the truth’ with all who will listen, yet you seem to reject our sharing in return. Remember, self admittedly from you, your truth was born 1500 to 1600 years after the death and resurrection of the Lord. How is that truth determined to be better than the truth taught by the early Church fathers who not only practiced Christianity under the Apostles themselves, they were disciples and commissioned by those Apostles?

 

[Reformed]

Yet you reject writings by early Church fathers. Early Church fathers who practiced Christianity under the Apostles themselves, who did not practice the 5 solas?

Again, if you wanted the historic position and understanding, we have writings from the early Church fathers, some of whom practiced Christianity under the Apostles themselves.

If this was possible, I’m not saying it was definate, how do we know which Church of the reformation or those who reformed from the reformation is correct? It seems there is a ‘watering down’ of the Gospel message and teaching of Christ with each new denomination that starts up. This has the appearances of finding a belief, doctrine, that fits one’s individual lifestyle. Is this being obedient to God’s will?

Again, who determines the real truth with so many denominations in the world? Also, you say ‘share the truth’ with all who will listen, yet you seem to reject our sharing in return. Remember, self admittedly from you, your truth was born 1500 to 1600 years after the death and resurrection of the Lord. How is that truth determined to be better than the truth taught by the early Church fathers who not only practiced Christianity under the Apostles themselves, they were disciples and commissioned by those Apostles?

And the discussion and debate continues. We both cannot be right at the same time. Sometimes, God is the author of division.

But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. 1 Cor 11

Philippians 1:7

It is right for me to feel this way about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel.

Philippians 1:16

The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.

2 Timothy 2:10

Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

 

[distracted]

Trust that the person and work of Christ reconciles us to the Father by atoning for our sins and for obeying the Law for us.

Define “trust”… does that mean just trusting… and then, like, going about your worldly business as usual because you, say, want to make $ & succeed… & you feel all you need do about Jesus is trust in him (mentallly)? That is why i dont’ like such statements… they tell us nothing… about what it means to truly trust… and to have faith… Faith without works is dead (James 2)… Trust without works is worthless…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

And the discussion and debate continues. We both cannot be right at the same time. Sometimes, God is the author of division.

So, you are saying that ‘division’ is beneficial? Is it scriptural?

I don’t believe division is of God. Division is more of the fallen one.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
Joh 17:23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no schisms among you: but that you be perfect in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[Reformed]

So, you are saying that ‘division’ is beneficial? Is it scriptural?

I don’t believe division is of God. Division is more of the fallen one.

Scripture goes right over your head. I doesn’t matter what we personally believe. Truth is found in all of Scripture and not in our personal opinions. Have a great Saturday. I will be taking my son out for the rest of the day. Lord, willing, let’s continue later on. BTW…is there a time when God is the cause of division according to Scripture? What do you think the creeds and the confessions are about?

But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. 1 Cor 11

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. 1 Cor 11

Philippians 1:7

It is right for me to feel this way about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel.

Philippians 1:16

The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.

2 Timothy 2:10

Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Throwing scriptures out does not prove anything, especially from one who admits to private interpretations.

Catholics believe in those same scriptures, and the whole chapter they were written in. It was Catholic councils that canonized the Bible close to the 4th century, long after the Church and faith were created. It was the Catholic Church that preserved the written word through time for us to have one to read and discuss today.

Again, you reject any writings of the early Church fathers that decided the canon of the Bible and accept writings of John Calvin from centuries later. That’s like saying Christ couldn’t protect the inspired word or guide Holy men through 1600 years and needed Calvin to correct it.

Because there were sinful men in the past it appears you have passed judgement on everyone that lived up until the time of Calvin.

Answer this, how did Calvin receive divine revelation better than anyone that practiced Christianity for centuries and centuries? How is your view of John Calvin different that how Mormons view Joseph Smith?

 

[distracted]

, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, 11

Which church? Which of the 35,000 do you attend?

Or are you your own church (and pope, etc.)…

When you come together as a church… hmm… What “church” was it that broke away? Which one is in disunity?

Protestants do not, therefore… come together as a church… in violation of the scripture they claim to so appreciate…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Scripture goes right over your head. I doesn’t matter what we personally believe. Truth is found in all of Scripture and not in our personal opinions.

Can you not see? Isn’t the above statement YOUR personal opinion? Isn’t sola scriptura based on personal opinions or interpretations of scripture?

BTW…is there a time when God is the cause of division according to Scripture? What do you think the creeds and the confessions are about?

The division according to scriptures came from sola scriptura. That was not God’s work.

But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. 1 Cor 11

Again, you pull one verse out of St. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians to prove a point. Do you realize you have to read the whole letter to see what corrections he was addressing? Can you not see he was attempting to correct the divisions?

You should really re-consider how context changes when you pull one verse out of the inspired word.

To receive full context of a verse, you must read the chapter it’s in. To receive full context of a chapter, you must read the book it’s in. To receive full context of a book, you must read the New Testament. To receive full context of the New Testament, you must read the Old Testament. The Bible is one, just as Christ and the Father are one, just as Christ prayed we all be perfectly one.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith: I indeed am of Paul; and I am of Apollo; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14 I give God thanks, that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Caius:
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that you were baptized in my name.
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanus. Besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of speech, lest the cross of Christ should be made void.
1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross, to them indeed that perish, is foolishness: but to them that are saved, that is, to us, it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise: and the prudence of the prudent I will reject.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21 For, seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world, by wisdom, knew not God, it pleased God, by the foolishness of our preaching, to save them that believe.
1Co 1:22 For both the Jews require signs: and the Greeks seek after wisdom.
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified: unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness:
1Co 1:24 But unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men: and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26 For see your vocation, brethren, that there are not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble.
1Co 1:27 But the foolish things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the wise: and the weak things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the strong.
1Co 1:28 And the base things of the world and the things that are contemptible, hath God chosen: and things that are not, that he might bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his sight.
1Co 1:30 But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom and justice and sanctification and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, as it is written: He that glorieth may glory in the Lord.

I bolded verse 17 to show you that oral tradition existed then and we believe the Holy Spirit protects His word, whether written or oral. This seems to be less of limiting God’s power than to solely rely on the written word.

 

[distracted]

Can you not see? .

no he can’t… or, more likely, it is as the saying goes:

There is none so blind as he who will not see…

 

[TriuneUnity]

I can understand your position, but don’t agree with your conclusions. The gospel is in a different category than other issues. But you unintentionally misrepresented your views to say that you agree with the Cambridge Declaration and the Alliance of Confession Evangelicals. Your position does not line-up with the historic Protetstant Confessions, because the statements about the Roman Catholic Church is clear for all to understand. I will say that you are in the Lutheran camp which signed The Joint Declaration on Justification. I guess I should have discerned your views by your screen name.

What I said was I agreed with the Cambridge Declaration; which contains the five solas. I agreed with the 5 solas before the Cambridge Declaration was written. I also stated that I find many of the people within the Alliance to be good teachers; I never allied myself with any of their other statements of faith. My position lines up with the Lutheran Book of Concord; which DOESN’T line up with the Westminster Confession, the Belgic Confession, or the London Baptist Confession! The historic Protestant statements of faith are not the same on every point.

Nor do I feel the need to satisfy your ultra-Puritan attitudes toward the Roman Catholic Church. I abide by the fact that justification will forever sever any official union with Roman Catholics on an ecclesiastical level. For someone who claims to believe in the invisible unity of the church, you sure do place a lot of visible barriers to that communion.

 

[TriuneUnity]

Define “trust”… does that mean just trusting… and then, like, going about your worldly business as usual because you, say, want to make $ & succeed… & you feel all you need do about Jesus is trust in him (mentallly)? That is why i dont’ like such statements… they tell us nothing… about what it means to truly trust… and to have faith… Faith without works is dead (James 2)… Trust without works is worthless…

Again, you are defining trust the way no Protestant ever has, historically. Trust is a dependence that the works of Christ for us are sufficient to reconcile us with God and grant us eternal life. We demonstrate that trust through works to serve our neighbor since Christ already fully pleases the Father on our behalf.

You’re turning something simple into rocket science, really.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Nor do I feel the need to satisfy your ultra-Puritan attitudes toward the Roman Catholic Church. I abide by the fact that justification will forever sever any official union with Roman Catholics on an ecclesiastical level. For someone who claims to believe in the invisible unity of the church, you sure do place a lot of visible barriers to that communion.

If you cook as purty as you talk, cook me up one of them bratwurst.

 

[TriuneUnity]

If you cook as purty as you talk, cook me up one of them bratwurst.

Jah! Ist bratwurst unt roasted Huegenot.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Jah! Ist bratwurst unt roasted Huegenot.

Didn’t you say something about strudle once? Hmmmm, strudle.

 

[distracted]

Again, you are defining trust the way no Protestant ever has,.

So not true…

i know Protestants who live exactly as i described… They think that just believing in “all that stuff in the bible” will get them into Heaven… but they don’t believe… They pick and choose what to bleieve, ignore all the Catholic-sounding stuff… the stuff that disagrees with their own viewpoint… and go their merry way through life…

I have told this one Protestant i know the catholic posiiton on various issues… the Cathlic interpretation of various scirptures… He never has a rebuttal… so he always changes the subject… and just goes … well… his merry way… being rude and abusive to people (Catholics), and various other sins…

because he is “saved no matter what”…

Yet in the bible, which he claims to believe it, it clearly says that the person who sins belongs to the devil…

 

[Reformed]

So not true…

i know Protestants who live exactly as i described… They think that just believing in “all that stuff in the bible” will get them into Heaven… but they don’t believe… They pick and choose what to bleieve, ignore all the Catholic-sounding stuff… the stuff that disagrees with their own viewpoint… and go their merry way through life…

I have told this one Protestant i know the catholic posiiton on various issues… the Cathlic interpretation of various scirptures… He never has a rebuttal… so he always changes the subject… and just goes … well… his merry way… being rude and abusive to people (Catholics), and various other sins…

because he is “saved no matter what”…

Yet in the bible, which he claims to believe it, it clearly says that the person who sins belongs to the devil…

1 John

This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Christ Our Advocate

2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

BTW… I do not believe in OSAS but rather I believe in the P in TULIP.