The great kneeler controversy

[Fullsizesedan]

Wasn’t that Luther’s mindset when he decided to throw out the Deuterocanonical books out of the canon?

I’m not a Lutheran, I couldn’t tell you on that. But the folks who are removing kneelers are RCC priests and bishops, not rebels at all.

 

[Fergal]

Hi Folks!

To those who can kneel I guess kneeling without kneelers is a greater act of faith. The Lord will reward this.

To those of you who can kneel and don’t because of the lack of kneelers, vanity pure vanity. It almost borders on disrespect.

Fergal
Naas
Ireland

 

[squirt]

I wonder what parishioners from other rites think when Latin rite Catholics insist on kneeling during parts of their liturgies where the rubrics indicate that one should stand?

When I go to the Maronite Mass, where the rubrics in the missal indicates that one should stand during the consecration, many non-Maronites insist on kneeling.

 

[Mike_C]

If you attend Mass at St. Peter’s in the Vatican there are no kneelers, same for most of the churches in Europe. In the Eastern Churches we stand throught the entire Liturgy, except for the Epistle.
Standing is not disrespectful.

People make a lot of noise banging the kneelers when its time for Communion. Why? Why can’t then bend down and lift it up or down instead of using their foot and banging it? Thats disrespectful.

 

[Paul_W]

When I was a teenager, I was attending Mass with my family, when suddenly my sister began to violently punch me in the arm. Since she was old enough to know better, and typically well-behaved, I looked at her to see what her problem was.

It seems I had put the kneeler down on her foot, and then knelt on it, pinning her foot underneath. She didn’t have enough leverage to lift the kneeler and extract her foot, and thought that repeated punching was the best way to quickly get my attention. :whacky:

Obviously I learned my lesson, and now check before putting the kneeler down.

 

[pnewton]

Paul W:

It seems I had put the kneeler down on her foot, and then knelt on it, pinning her foot underneath.

Like you, I did this once with my wife! And like you it was only once.

 

[Fullsizesedan]

*When I go to the Maronite Mass, where the rubrics in the missal indicates that one should stand during the consecration, many non-Maronites insist on kneeling. *

I find that to be unusual and peculiar, (not the standing but some of the folks kneeling instead).

25 years ago I was at a Greek funeral liturgy for a deceased co-worker- boy was it long! with a lot of standing , although pretty interesting with the Greek language being spoke and the bright gold of the church and interesting vestments.

Instinctively, I just kept an eye on the family members and did what they did, and so did the other non-greek folks I was there standing with. It seems peculiar that a visitor wouldn’t imitate the natives in this kind of situation.

 

[pnewton]

squirt:

When I go to the Maronite Mass, where the rubrics in the missal indicates that one should stand during the consecration, many non-Maronites insist on kneeling.

You are totally correct in the context of a Marionite Mass, but when in Rome…

 

[system]

naprous:

For the record, I hate kneelers. If I’m going to kneel, I’d rather do it on the floor.

I’d also rather just kneel on the floor.

I’ve only been in one church where there were no kneelers, and I was surprised, so I kneeled on the floor.

But I’m kind of tall, so if the pews don’t have at least backs that are of average height (if they’re short’ish backs), I have to kind of hunch over to have my hands placed the way I like. In this instance, I don’t use the kneeler and kneel on the floor anyway…but I sit in the last pew when I do this.

I guess it doesn’t much matter to me whether there are kneelers; I’ll still kneel. But it’s kind of sad for those who can’t get down to the floor comfortably.

JELane

 

[squirt]

*When I go to the Maronite Mass, where the rubrics in the missal indicates that one should stand during the consecration, many non-Maronites insist on kneeling. *

I find that to be unusual and peculiar, (not the standing but some of the folks kneeling instead).

I think that it might be because this particular parish offers a predominantly English language Maronite liturgy for people in the neighbourhood who don’t understand Syriac. It’s a nice gesture from the Maronites, as it allows many local elderly people who would prefer not to travel to the nearest Latin rite parish an opportunity to have easy access to a Sunday Mass. I think that many of these people are just so used to kneeling that it’s ‘second nature’ to them. The Maronite priest doesn’t seem to mind. I’m sure he doesn’t take it as an insult to Maronite customs.

 

[loyola_rambler]

Panis Angelicas:

Are you sure they sit because they’re used to “no kneelers?” Maybe they have back or knee problems, or are prideful, or don’t know any better. Kneelers haven’t been out of most churches all that long!
How can you be sure that they’d still sit if kneelers were provided?

Quite sure there are no physical problems. Having served at many parishes and knowing their own particular practices, it’s very obvious that there’s an entire generation that wouldn’t kneel if the Lord really were in front of them. I went to a wedding in the Diocese of Lansing recently where the only people who knelt (other than the bride and groom) were from my own family. There were plenty of kneelers…and plenty of Catholics…and only 2 pews of us knelt…even after receiving Communion these people were walking back and just sitting down. I don’t get it…

 

[Fullsizesedan]

I think that it might be because this particular parish offers a predominantly English language Maronite liturgy for people in the neighbourhood who don’t understand Syriac.

Seems like the visitors are imitating each other, and since there are quite a few frequent visitors, the new visitors are imitating the older visitors instead of the Maronites in attendance.

I don’t think its offensive just sort of a study as to how various practices can develop.

 

[squirt]

I think that it might be because this particular parish offers a predominantly English language Maronite liturgy for people in the neighbourhood who don’t understand Syriac.

Seems like the visitors are imitating each other, and since there are quite a few frequent visitors, the new visitors are imitating the older visitors instead of the Maronites in attendance.

I don’t think its offensive just sort of a study as to how various practices can develop.

You’re probably right. I have no idea if anybody kneels during their Syriac service. Since I don’t understand Syriac, I’ve only ever attended their English-language Mass.

 

[Bizob]

Mike C:

If you attend Mass at St. Peter’s in the Vatican there are no kneelers…

I’m pretty sure this is wrong.
I was in Rome during May and spent a lot of time kneeling in St. Peters. I’m pretty sure I was doing it on a kneeler. However, they were stationary. So if by “kneeler” you mean one that goes up and down, then maybe St. Peter’s doesn’t have them, but if by “kneeler” you mean, something to kneel on, then they definitely do.

 

[Prometheum_x]

Bizob:

I’m pretty sure this is wrong.
I was in Rome during May and spent a lot of time kneeling in St. Peters. I’m pretty sure I was doing it on a kneeler. However, they were stationary. So if by “kneeler” you mean one that goes up and down, then maybe St. Peter’s doesn’t have them, but if by “kneeler” you mean, something to kneel on, then they definitely do.

If there are more than several hundred people there, most people will have no kneelers.

 

[Bizob]

Prometheum_x:

If there are more than several hundred people there, most people will have no kneelers.

Well, obviously. If more than several hundred people attended mass at ANY church, most wouldn’t have kneelers to use. But that doesn’t mean that there *aren’t *kneelers.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Wasn’t that Luther’s mindset when he decided to throw out the Deuterocanonical books out of the canon?

I’m not a Lutheran, I couldn’t tell you on that. But the folks who are removing kneelers are RCC priests and bishops, not rebels at all.

Martin Luther was a Catholic priest.

 

[maggiec]

Kneelers or not I’m going to kneel. Jesus gave His life for me, when my back starts to hurt (which it often does while kneeling) I offer it up, amazing how I seem to be able to forget my back when I’m offering praise and thanksgiving to our Lord.
maggiec

 

[Ray_Marshall]

People make a lot of noise banging the kneelers when its time for Communion. Why? Why can’t then bend down and lift it up or down instead of using their foot and banging it?

I don’t know about anybody else, but when I am guilty of banging the kneeler, creating a resounding crash in the church, it is not the kneeler in front of me which I have dislodged, it is the one behind me which my feet nudge, throwing it into action.

 

[Prometheum_x]

Bizob:

Well, obviously. If more than several hundred people attended mass at ANY church, most wouldn’t have kneelers to use. But that doesn’t mean that there *aren’t *kneelers.

My church seats over 500, and everyone can kneel, and it is a recently constructed church. Actually, at the church I used to go to, which is a Lutheran church, they just built a new sanctuary (in the protestant sense of the word), and it seats 700, with enough kneelers for everyone.

However, it is interesting that a church with the size and importance of St. Peter’s would have so few kneelers. So relatively few, in fact, that one could state that, in general, St. Peter’s doesn’t have kneelers.